I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
Obama is going to be in a pickle, but at least he will be the elected president of the country. I hope people figure out that he can't wave a magic wand and make $2 gas come back, or put all that copper pipe back in those abandoned houses, renovate them and move every real estate speculator back into them.
He can't do miracles, but he can give a heck of a speech.
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
We need someone who can pull us up from the depths.
It's time for an inspiring leader again. _________________ Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
Joined: Apr 23, 2008 Posts: 157 Location: Georgia, USA
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
joelcolorado wrote:
Honestly, if Obama wins, then the American ppl will get what they deserve for not listening to what he is saying. MORE TAXES dumbasses.
Cant you hear it when he says it.? MORE means less for YOU and me. THINK ppl
Something has to change. Either we cut spending (my choice) or raise taxes. You can't have massive wars going on and low taxes to boot. Are you suggesting that we keep up the deficit spending that has been rampant under Bush? Soon we will struggle to pay only the interest on the national debt. It will consume the budget. Then what? One of these days, China is going to cut us off.
My solution would involve reining in the massive military spending and funneling some of it into domestic priorities (infrastructure, etc).
I don't know that Obama will have such a landslide. I know a lot of people who would never vote for him. I'm not hopeful for much positive change from either one, but at least we will get rid of that "Bush stench" that someone mentioned. I'll drink to that at least.
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
Obama will win. Look at it this way, one of them will be president next year. He has only one opponent and an easy one. Obama is smart and quick witted. So was McCain - years ago. All Obama has to do during the campaign is tactfully put McCain in situations where he has to ad lib and McCain will stumble. The age difference is Obama's trump card.
The other problem is McCain's biggest issue is the war, which voters are trying to forget about. The American people are having a hangover right now, economic issues are way above everything else right now. McCain doesn't seem to have any agenda domestically and will try to rial up fears of terrorism everywhere and that will not play well. _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4398 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
Kingcoal wrote:
The other problem is McCain's biggest issue is the war, which voters are trying to forget about. The American people are having a hangover right now, economic issues are way above everything else right now. McCain doesn't seem to have any agenda domestically and will try to rial up fears of terrorism everywhere and that will not play well.
The problem is McCain has had to become a chameleon to appeal to conflicting ideologies within the party. He used to be respected by democrats for his willingness to occasionally cross party lines on certain issues, but the closer he came to the nomination the more he had to become a MiniMe neocon. Now he's got to live with his choices.
For instance, I find it shameful that McCain, someone who suffered as a POW, is busy complaining about the supreme court allowing the POWs in Guantanamo habeas corpus. Now, I do not think the prisoners there should be granted all the rights of US born citizens but this is a war without end. It's not like other wars where peace is declared and the POWs come home. The US is going to have to do something to decide their fate one way or another. Where has McCain's personal integrity gone?? You can't use your POW record in a TV ad one minute and advocate locking up POWs and throwing away the key the next.
The amount of ammo like this which McCain has set himself up with is just waiting for Obama to plow through in a debate. I really think red staters will think twice before voting for someone likely to just continue 4 more years of the incompetent status quo. They want a conservative, but a conservative who can deliver on promises. McCain refuses to even admit that the Bush administration has been a failure, and so can not be a true agent of change. _________________ As long as I am around, there are no worries we have reached "Peak Words"
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6285 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
mos6507 wrote:
I find it shameful that McCain... is busy complaining about the supreme court allowing the POWs in Guantanamo habeas corpus.
McCain has never wavered in his position that POWs shouldn't be mistreated.
However, POWs have NEVER had the right of habeus corpus. For instance, the criminal Nazis captured and then tried for war crimes and executed at Nuremburg after WWII did not have Habeua Corpous rights in US courts.
The US only takes POWs when we are at war. Giving our enemies US constitutional rights gives them the ability to tie up our justice system for years at a time with lawsuits. As a result, it would now be impossible for the US to try Nazi and Japanese mass murderers and war criminals captured during WWII in a timely fashion, just as it has proven to be impossible for 7 years to try the 9/ll al Qaida war criminals and held conspirators at Gitmo because of the invention of new rights for them by the U.S. Supreme Court.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4683 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
Considering the crap that's happening in this country...does anyone honestly, passionately care about the plight of the terrorists in Gitmo?
Milk and gasoline cost $4 a gallon. Unemployment is shooting up. Health insurance premiums continue their relentless climb. Our infrastructure is literally falling apart as we speak. Millions of hardworking Americans are at risk for losing their homes. Hundreds of thousands of American soldiers are engaged in a war that we are NOT winning. The national debt is out of control. The borders are completely undefended and illegals aliens are overrunning our schools and hospitals...
And you guys are bitching about the civil rights of people who spend their lives plotting to murder my friends and family?
Get your priorities straight... _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:34 pm Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
I happen to know that at least some Christians are suffering from political burnout after the Bush years. They are not voting at all and certainly not for McCain who is going to be nothing if he is not an oil industry hack. The Republican is done. The Bush years have destroyed it. There may be a rebirth on new platform after a decade or so, but the old Republican plank of breaks for big business while you are in bed with them stinks to high heaven. I know the argument, if corporations have more money they spend more, hire more etc. The problem is it gives corporations too much power.
The corporations lobby and get what they want, but who tells them they need to return the favor and stick it out with a community that has worked for them for generations? This country has to be built on something more meaningful than a profit margin, it has to be success based upon social justice, which causes us all to give our very best. In fact I am going to be very bold, though I stand at the middle of the road politically ( I am not middle of the road when it comes to the source of prospeity for a nation) and say this,
'If there is famine in the land, if thee is pestilence, if there is blight or mildew, if there is locust or grasshopper, if their enemies besiege them in the land of their cities, whatever plague or whatever sickness there is, whatever prayer or supplication is made by any man or by all Thy people Israel, each knowing his own affliction and his own pain, and spreading his hands toward this house, then hear Thou from heaven Thy dwelling place, and forgive, and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart Thou knowest for Thous alone dost know the hearts of the sons of men, that they may fear Thee, to walk in Thy ways as long as they live in the land which Thou has given to our fathers.' 2Chronicles 6:28-31
85% of the country claims to be Christian and yet here we are between othe scissor blades of the far left and the far right. Pray. Know your own faults and seek God's grace to turn from them. The character of a man comes form his heart, of a home from the individuals who compose it, of the communitity from each one and from it's families, of a nation from it's communities... You want a break? Pray.
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
Obama should get in. He'll definitely have the popular vote, but I'm not convinced he can't be defeated by an electoral college and vote rigging. I'm afraid the only real hope for the US is a military overthrow to reestablish the constitution and the popular vote.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4398 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:08 am Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
Plantagenet wrote:
However, POWs have NEVER had the right of habeus corpus. For instance, the criminal Nazis captured and then tried for war crimes and executed at Nuremburg after WWII did not have Habeua Corpous rights in US courts.
I hear you. But the facts surrounding the actions of someone like Goering were indisputable. However, a lot of the people in Guantanamo are probably just low-level footsoldiers. In a normal war, a POW is like a pawn that gets captured and pushed to the side of the chess board so they are no longer a threat in theater. When the game is over, you release the pawns. When do you think that day might come?
If the assumption is that these guys have been radicalized enough that if you released them at any time down the road they would kill US troops, we should just execute them and get it over with.
Plantagenet wrote:
The US only takes POWs when we are at war.
That's the whole thing. When is the war over? Saddam is long dead and buried. Karzai is running afghanistan. The final fate of these prisoners needs to be decided one way or another. We can't just keep absorbing more and more of these prisoners that will sit in limbo forever. _________________ As long as I am around, there are no worries we have reached "Peak Words"
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6285 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
mos6507 wrote:
We can't just keep absorbing more and more of these prisoners that will sit in limbo forever.
More and more?? Gosh...there are only about 250 left at Gitmo. Most of them have already been released or repatriated to their home countries.
It probably doesn't matter much anyway....Obama has already pledged to close Gitmo, and is much too fine a guy to ever risk hurting his poll standings by holding POWs if there is are protests against it.
Last edited by Plantagenet on Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4398 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
Tyler_JC wrote:
Considering the crap that's happening in this country...does anyone honestly, passionately care about the plight of the terrorists in Gitmo?
I don't really care about them either, assuming they are there for a good reason, they can go to hell. I just think McCain looks like a hypocrite when he was forced to rot in a POW camp for years and now he's suggesting these guys rot for years. Certainly the VC had their reasons for keeping McCain prisoner and torturing him. Does he see things from their perspective now? If he didn't have that baggage he could say what he wants to say, but the whole reason we have things like the Geneva Convention is not that we love our enemies but it is to avoid a "race to the bottom". Obviously these terrorists would love to race us to the bottom. The question is, should we follow them there? The degree to which he supports their abuse (and I mean that in kind of a loose fashion, I don't think the Guantanamo prisoners are being abused in any way approaching that of the Vietnam War) it just sends a signal that there are no standards anymore, and future US POWs are more likely to be abused the way McCain was. _________________ As long as I am around, there are no worries we have reached "Peak Words"
Joined: Apr 04, 2005 Posts: 473 Location: Seattle, WA
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
Tyler_JC wrote:
Considering the crap that's happening in this country...does anyone honestly, passionately care about the plight of the terrorists in Gitmo?
Milk and gasoline cost $4 a gallon. Unemployment is shooting up. Health insurance premiums continue their relentless climb. Our infrastructure is literally falling apart as we speak. Millions of hardworking Americans are at risk for losing their homes. Hundreds of thousands of American soldiers are engaged in a war that we are NOT winning. The national debt is out of control. The borders are completely undefended and illegals aliens are overrunning our schools and hospitals...
And you guys are bitching about the civil rights of people who spend their lives plotting to murder my friends and family?
Get your priorities straight...
]
I care. It's those bastard cave dwellers right now. Next year it's your democratic friends who voted for Obama that get locked up without any recourse. A few years after that it's your family and your sister who is locked up. Constitutional gov't without checks and balances is no gov't at all.
Joined: Jul 17, 2004 Posts: 490 Location: Amerika (most of the time)
Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: Re: John McCain will not win election
Tyler_JC wrote:
Considering the crap that's happening in this country...does anyone honestly, passionately care about the plight of the terrorists in Gitmo?
Milk and gasoline cost $4 a gallon. Unemployment is shooting up. Health insurance premiums continue their relentless climb. Our infrastructure is literally falling apart as we speak. Millions of hardworking Americans are at risk for losing their homes. Hundreds of thousands of American soldiers are engaged in a war that we are NOT winning. The national debt is out of control. The borders are completely undefended and illegals aliens are overrunning our schools and hospitals...
And you guys are bitching about the civil rights of people who spend their lives plotting to murder my friends and family?
Get your priorities straight...
Tyler, aren't you a conservative? Don't conservatives believe in limited government? What you are advocating is an extreme increase in the power and scope of the federal government?
If you allow the executive branch to define some poor schmucks from Afghanistan as "enemy combatants" and can be locked away forever without any type of hearing, then what stops the government from declaring some poor American schmuck an "enemy combatant" in the "War on Drugs" or whatever War the government dreams up? Always be very careful when the government tries to take away basic fundamental rights because it always starts with the people who society hates before it moves to everyone. _________________ Simon's Law: Everything put together falls apart sooner or later.
I don't think of all the misery, but of all the beauty that still remains.--Anne Frank
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