Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
Quote:
Bush: Lift ban on offshore drilling
President says increasing domestic oil supply will offset high gas prices. 'Our nation must produce more oil, and we must start now," he says.
By Beth Braverman, CNNMoney.com contributing writer
June 18, 2008: 10:42 AM EDT
WASHINGTON (CNNMoney.com) -- President Bush, saying the United States "must produce more oil," called Wednesday for a lifting of the ban on offshore drilling.
"Congress must face a hard reality," Bush said. "Unless members are willing to accept gas prices at today's painful prices or even higher, our nation must produce more oil, and we must start now."
The speech highlights the growing political pressure to reduce dependence on foreign oil and stem growing gasoline prices. The issue has become central to the presidential election as gas prices have exceeded $4 a gallon and become a drag on an already sluggish economy.
Presumptive Republican candidate John McCain called for the a lift in the offshore drilling ban Tuesday. McCain's plan would let individual states decide whether to explore drilling possibilities off their shores.
Critics of offshore drilling claim the practice harms aquatic ecosystems by eroding wetlands, contaminating the water with chemicals, polluting the air, killing fish and dumping waste.
Presumptive Democratic candidate Barack Obama called McCain's offshore drilling plan "short-term political posturing." Obama prefers a profits tax on oil companies and investment in renewable energy sources.
If I recall correctly he said 10 bbl recoverable in offshore gulf locations. Then he went on to talk about the 800 bbl of oil shale out in Colorado and Utah. He started saying (rather emphatically) "...and this oil is recoverable." He realized he had misspoke and started again "And IF this oil is recoverable it will equal a decade's worth of U.S. imports."
Personally, I agree with drilling offshore and making every effort to exploit the oil shale out in CO as long as it's coupled with investments in new energy sources, and improving public transit.
I'll post the text of the speech if I can find it, but you had to hear his intonation to get the full picture.
Last edited by sangpourhuile on Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:06 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 3766 Location: In a van down by the river
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
Exploiting oil shale sounds nice but it creates a very tough choice.
Would you rather have oil or water?
Turning those rocks into oil will require taxing the already breaking water resources in the West. We will maybe able to turn rocks into fuel but the farms in California are going to turn back into deserts.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
The shale thing is a red herring. Hundreds of thousands of acres of shale fields are sitting under private lands in mining-friendly states. If it were energy-positive (at $135 oil and whatever gas and water prices would hold), the oil companies have *always* been free to get to work on it.
They haven't.
If the Feds give away mineral rights, subsidize water, allow pollution externalization, and pay the cost of R&D... well... yeah... the majors will get involved. Though they won't actually care if they get oil profitably or not... it will just be a way to leach government dollars (something they're good at). _________________ At 1% annual growth, human bodies will incorporate every gram in the observable universe in approximately 10,170 years.
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1091 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
lawnchair wrote:
The shale thing is a red herring. Hundreds of thousands of acres of shale fields are sitting under private lands in mining-friendly states. If it were energy-positive (at $135 oil and whatever gas and water prices would hold), the oil companies have *always* been free to get to work on it.
They haven't.
How long have oil prices been over $100??? Only a few months.
To start a huge mining shale play it would take billions of dollars, lots of infrastructure, manpower, water, natural gas, and several years. You can't just start mining shale within a couple of weeks. There is a lot of logistics involved. Just check out Canada. It is not an easy process and very expensive.
Its important to look at the big picture. High oil prices are a brand new phenomenon. $100 oil has only happed for a few months while the oil industry has been alive over 150 years.
Also they might be economic at $135 maybe even $80/bbl but oil companies don't believe the world is at peak oil and therefore believe this might be another cycle that they have seen for decades. You can't justify projects that need $100/bbl oil based on "peak oil" especially when 99% of the world does not believe in peak oil.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
The problem is that as much as $100 oil is new, so are the huge hikes in the cost of iron ore, natural gas, coal and a dozen other imput materials. Whatsmore as inflation bites and those who can demand more money they will demand more so wage inflation is liable to be a problem as well. The changes in the cost of oil have not been in isolation.
Edited, actualy I doubt anyone needs to be reminded of that.
Joined: Dec 06, 2005 Posts: 833 Location: Stopped at the border.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:52 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
I didn't listen to Bush's speech, but I read an article summing it up. It made me wonder if the time is now for the US to exploit its offshore reserves or if it should continue to see them as long term reserves. Given the time that it takes to get projects off of the ground and the possible complications in deep water now could be the time if the US will need that oil in the middle teen years. I have always thought, however, that those reserves ought to be held for the 2020's or the 2030's.
Given the rapid ice melt up north I reckon that ANWR should be held out of the picture up until it can be ascertained what kind of infrastructure can be put in place there. If they can tanker oil out of the area because of ice loss that would be a far cheaper alternative to tying in pipelines. ANWR is a real hot potato, but there are more than political reasons for stalling on whether to proceed. _________________ "Hope encourages men to take risks; men in a strong position may follow her without ruin, if not without loss. But when they stake all that they have to the last coin (for she is a spendthrift), she reveals her real self in the hour of failure."
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1091 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
joelcolorado wrote:
Last night the experts said that without the speculators, oil would be $55. So who is the criminals? The banks and investors who are driving that.
So you don't think that growing demand and little production growth has anything to do with that.
Please tell me you are joking and I missed the sarcasm in your post.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
joelcolorado wrote:
Last night the experts said that without the speculators, oil would be $55. So who is the criminals? The banks and investors who are driving that.
These same experts have been calling for the oil "bubble" to burst for years now saying that oil should and WILL fall to $40. Some even say $20. If they think so strongly that it should be there, provide the numbers to prove it. _________________ Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
3aidlillahi wrote:
joelcolorado wrote:
Last night the experts said that without the speculators, oil would be $55. So who is the criminals? The banks and investors who are driving that.
These same experts have been calling for the oil "bubble" to burst for years now saying that oil should and WILL fall to $40. Some even say $20. If they think so strongly that it should be there, provide the numbers to prove it.
It certainly could be $20 in the midst of the upcoming depression... _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
emersonbiggins wrote:
3aidlillahi wrote:
joelcolorado wrote:
Last night the experts said that without the speculators, oil would be $55. So who is the criminals? The banks and investors who are driving that.
These same experts have been calling for the oil "bubble" to burst for years now saying that oil should and WILL fall to $40. Some even say $20. If they think so strongly that it should be there, provide the numbers to prove it.
It certainly could be $20 in the midst of the upcoming depression...
Yeah, assuming Heli-Ben doesn't drop rates negative, which I wouldn't put past him. Or that the government hands out hundreds of billions more in bailouts which would increase inflation.
So it might equal $20/barrel in 20xx dollars, but in nominal dollars, it will likely never hit that mark. _________________ Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
So let's see--we have deposits of oil that are essentially money in the bank, money that is increasing in value at 50-100% annual rates. Our geniuses in government want to withdraw this high-interest-bearing asset so that Americans won't have to make the jarring changes of lifestyle that they will have to make anyway and should have made 30-40 years ago?
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
I think the concern, particularly with offshore oil, is that China is already drilling it with Cuban approval. So even though the value of oil is increasing 30 to 40% per year, we might miss the boat on recovering it.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2679 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
Exactly how much oil are we talking about offshore, which is currently off-limits? 10 billion barrels? Is that the recoverable amount? _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2679 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Anyone listening to Bush's speech re: drilling?
sangpourhuile wrote:
I think the concern, particularly with offshore oil, is that China is already drilling it with Cuban approval. So even though the value of oil is increasing 30 to 40% per year, we might miss the boat on recovering it.
That has nothing to do with the oil off limtis in American waters. That oil is on Cuban waters, and the reason it's not being drilled by American companies is because of the US embargo against Cuba.
And W sure as hell won't touch that. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
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