Joined: Jun 03, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: Great Britain
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:07 am Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
Several decades too late. When we're in a recession (if we're not already), who's going to be able to afford fancy solar panels? Not many! People are squeezed tight already, they won't be able to afford it and neither will the government.
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
yull wrote:
who's going to be able to afford fancy solar panels? Not many! People are squeezed tight already
As far as I can see there are still huge numbers of people wasting their money on all sorts of crap; it's a question of priorities. If energy prices rise sufficiently, priorities will soon change. Keep warm? or carry on with the toys, vacations abroad and boozy nights out?
Quote:
The plans recognise that the new energy policy could transform large areas of Britain's landscape and have a "significant impacts on all our lives...not all of these positive", the Guardian reported.
Sad. Beautiful Britain might not look so pretty soon.
But at least we can be grateful there's a lot of potential wind and tidal power on our small, damp, little island.
As a non green aside: Not much talked about but there is also billions of tons of coal below the ground (UK), despite the fact that most of it is no longer listed in the reserve figures. When coal prices rise sufficiently we will see it mysteriously reappear in the stats again ... and eventually be dug up and burnt.
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
energycity wrote:
yull wrote:
who's going to be able to afford fancy solar panels? Not many! People are squeezed tight already
As a non green aside: Not much talked about but there is also billions of tons of coal below the ground (UK), despite the fact that most of it is no longer listed in the reserve figures. When coal prices rise sufficiently we will see it mysteriously reappear in the stats again ... and eventually be dug up and burnt.
Article in todays paper re solar heating. Average cost £22,000. People have NOT got that sort of money to spend. Wont happen.
Re coal - yes, lots still left. I heard only a couple of weeks ago that a mothballed colliery in the midlands was to be re-opened - advertising for miners.
We'e bloody crazy in UK -
We have coal - & shut most of the collierys
We have gas - wasted it making electricity
We have oil - and export it
We are an island, with one of the highest tidal ranges in the world, and many large river estuaries - but we have no tidal power
We were at the forefront of nuclear power (in the 50's) - but our nuclear power plants are increasingly getting life-expired.
This last 6 months has given a sharp shock & wake up call to the world. Our politicians are a state of continuous torpor. Perhaps all the wind & hot air coming out of Westminster may save us !!!.
Gasmon _________________ Constantus excrementia et level variatum
Were allways in the sh|t, its only the depth that varies
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
GASMON wrote:
Re coal - yes, lots still left. I heard only a couple of weeks ago that a mothballed colliery in the midlands was to be re-opened - advertising for miners.
Coal is used to generate more than a third of Britain's electricity but around 60 per cent of that used for power generation is imported from Russia, South Africa, Colombia and other countries, costing British-based power generators more than £2 billion a year.
A few years ago, these foreign exporters were charging £20 a tonne. That has now surged to £50. As a result, British coal manufacturing shows signs of reversing its downward trend.
A spokesman from UK Coal said the response to the job adverts before Monday's deadline signalled growing optimism in the British coal industry.
He said: "We have had an exceptional response which shows there is still an amazing amount of interest in the industry.
We have a major energy crisis ahead and we need to tackle it on all fronts; that certainly includes incentives for things like solar heating panels and insulation to reduce demand, as well as supply initiatives such as wind, tidal and - yes – a push to use more of our own coal! At this stage we can’t afford to rule out anything.
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
Talk about decades late......
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7467203.stm
UK looks at new network of rail routes. Too little too late. They would be far better looking at expanding the current mainlines to include dedicated freight lines to run alongside current mainlines. It would be much cheaper and allow tilting trains to run faster while adding significant freight capacity.
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
Ludi wrote:
energycity wrote:
yes – a push to use more of our own coal! At this stage we can’t afford to rule out anything.
To hell with climate change, huh?
Well, if the climate change theory is correct, and we ALL do the neccesary to TRY to correct it, (Brits, Yanks, Chinese, India), everybody, IF it is correctable then, quite simply society halts.
Coal CAN be burned more greener, fluidised bed combustion, carbon capture & storage, flue gas de-sulphurisation etc.
You CANNOT write coal off. BUT cleaner & greener methods MUST be used if coal consumption is to increase.
Gasmon _________________ Constantus excrementia et level variatum
Were allways in the sh|t, its only the depth that varies
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12472 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
GASMON wrote:
Well, if the climate change theory is correct, and we ALL do the neccesary to TRY to correct it, (Brits, Yanks, Chinese, India), everybody, IF it is correctable then, quite simply society halts.
Do you find extinction preferable? _________________ No original ideas are contained in this post.
I don't imagine the people of Britain will be too forgiving of any government that lets them freeze while billions of tons of coal lie under their feet.
Joined: Jun 03, 2004 Posts: 127 Location: Great Britain
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
If I recall right UK coal production peaked in 1903 and is now about 3% of the peak. There's no hope for coal here, it's scarce, of poor quality and difficult and expensive to get at, just like is happening with oil.
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
Ludi wrote:
GASMON wrote:
Well, if the climate change theory is correct, and we ALL do the neccesary to TRY to correct it, (Brits, Yanks, Chinese, India), everybody, IF it is correctable then, quite simply society halts.
Do you find extinction preferable?
NO I don't, but I see few large scale viable alternatives (i.e. no CO2) availiable to us at present. (except tidal in UK).
How can you stop 6 billion people chucking ever increasing vast ammounts CO2 out ?, and stop them NOW ??.
Big, Big problems & no one line answers.
Gasmon _________________ Constantus excrementia et level variatum
Were allways in the sh|t, its only the depth that varies
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
yull wrote:
If I recall right UK coal production peaked in 1903 and is now about 3% of the peak. There's no hope for coal here, it's scarce, of poor quality and difficult and expensive to get at, just like is happening with oil.
The UK still produces about 10 million tonnes. I strongly doubt that it produced 300 million in 1903.
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Green energy push planned for UK
energycity wrote:
yull wrote:
If I recall right UK coal production peaked in 1903 and is now about 3% of the peak. There's no hope for coal here, it's scarce, of poor quality and difficult and expensive to get at, just like is happening with oil.
Yep, it'd be a challenge and it's no magic bullet - but it's fossil fuel under our feet and the world looks different once the oil price exceeds $US150 dollars.
Here's an old BBC news story from 2004 (when oil was probably less than US $50). LINK
Quote:
The UK could secure its energy supply for many decades if it could use its huge reserves of coal, scientists say.
They want the government to give high priority to developing ways to store carbon dioxide underground, to allow it to exploit its abundant coal deposits.
And
Quote:
There's 10 times as much coal as the oil and gas reserves we have. The Russians told me they're going to build more nuclear plants, because they can't rely on oil and gas - and it's their oil and gas we're planning to rely on!
In the fifties I believe the reserve estimate was about 46 billion tons (I'd need to check this) and then from the early 80s Mrs Thatcher began her drastic shutting down of the mines (it was cheaper to import coal and the North Sea oil was starting to flow big time).
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