Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
I think you need to be upset at the American corporate greed-mongers and the elected leaders of our own country (Bill Clinton, Bush-2, etc.). We are responsible for our own situation, not China.
We are like drug addicts. No one put a gun to our head and forced us to buy the drugs in the first place.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
Beignet2 wrote:
There are or was . . . .
1Billion Chinese to 237 Million Americans.
They would kick our A$$ in 2-3 weeks with a military assault of 4:1
The sleeping giant is awake.
Beignet
I think you overestimate the meaning of riflemen in modern warfare. Ofcourse having lots of men is a good thing but if you dont have ships and trucks to get those men to the battlefield then they are useless. The US might not have as many men but it has a 100 missiles for every truck the chinese make.
Im no expert in warfare but i would put my money on the US if they were to attack China ;>
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
I'd put my money on America, too. China is a communist country and that's a factor when it comes to arming the poplace and telling them to lay down their life for their country.
And I doubt there is *anything* that'd tick off Americans more than a land invasion and such an event would awaken the masses and rally them to fight.
My neighbor is from China and she lives very cheaply and works very hard to save and make money. She sends her spare dollars to China and is systematically working to get friends and family out of China and into America. Her reports of the oppression on Chinese people (by their own government) are harrowing.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
You guys fantasizing about China invading the USA are quite far off the mark. Chinese are not aggressive by nature (completely the opposite of most Americans) and they try as much as possible to avoid confrontation. Lastly, there is no money to be made in such an action.
You need to spend some time to understand the Chinese mindset.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
Windmills wrote:
There could come a point at which the savings from cheap labor can no longer offset the rising cost of shipping cheap goods from the other side of the world. China's power as an exporter will then wane with the increasing price of oil, and manufacturing will become more local once again, just like agriculture. They can only sustain their oil subsidies for so long before the populace must bear the full force of the market prices and have their middle class crushed back down into the peasantry once again. I wouldn't get too worked up over China. Their days are as numbered as anyone else's, perhaps even more so.
I'm waiting for that to happen... it HAS TO HAPPEN; basic ROI. _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
zensui wrote:
Windmills wrote:
There could come a point at which the savings from cheap labor can no longer offset the rising cost of shipping cheap goods from the other side of the world. China's power as an exporter will then wane with the increasing price of oil, and manufacturing will become more local once again, just like agriculture. They can only sustain their oil subsidies for so long before the populace must bear the full force of the market prices and have their middle class crushed back down into the peasantry once again. I wouldn't get too worked up over China. Their days are as numbered as anyone else's, perhaps even more so.
I'm waiting for that to happen... it HAS TO HAPPEN; basic ROI.
But when goods become too expensive to import from China won’t they just be shifted to the next cheap alternative? (probably Mexico or S America, if you live in the US)
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 740 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:47 am Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
Windmills wrote:
China's power as an exporter will then wane with the increasing price of oil, and manufacturing will become more local once again, just like agriculture. They can only sustain their oil subsidies for so long before the populace must bear the full force of the market prices and have their middle class crushed back down into the peasantry once again. I wouldn't get too worked up over China. Their days are as numbered as anyone else's, perhaps even more so.
Unbelievable wishful thinking. You don't understand what China set out to do thirty years ago. They're using us -- our greed -- to build their infrastructure. We've been transferring HUGE amounts of money, technical know-how, and infrastructure over to them, hollowing out our own abilities on all these fronts. All the while, they've been raising the standard of living in China, slowly building a real, deep, broad middle class. They're not going to be crushed; they're going to become what we are, or used to be: the heart of the global economy. They've GOT the money, not us. They're lending us our own money these days to keep pilling on the lard for our own heart attack. Once they've got a sufficiently large enough consumer class, they're going to cut us loose. They'll start consuming domestically, rather than shovelling goodies out the door to us for a nickel a ton. They'll be consuming their own production, building profits off their own consumption, and offering us what's left over for whatever price they can extract from us. Do you really think that a nation of 1.3 billion people, finally sufficiently financed, is going to have a hard time taking up the slack of an exhausted, hollowed-out "sole superpower" of only 300 million customers? Even if the average person in China had only 1/4 the income of the average person on the US, they'd be able to cover that without putting a single container on a single ship.
Give your head a shake, Arizona. We're in trouble. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 740 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
hope_full wrote:
My neighbor is from China and she lives very cheaply and works very hard to save and make money. She sends her spare dollars to China and is systematically working to get friends and family out of China and into America. Her reports of the oppression on Chinese people (by their own government) are harrowing.
Well, unless she's got a plan to move 1.3 billion people to Cleveland or something, I'd say an awful lot of Chinese people are going to be living in, and have a vested interest in the well-being of, China for a long time to come yet, so maybe we should be taking that into account. Hitler was no Care Bear either, but it seems to me it still took Russia three or four years to get to Berlin, even once we'd landed in Normandy to help out. The people of China might very well consider the Communist Party to be a bunch of bastards, but at the end of the day, they're THEIR bastards, after all. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
After working them to death on the railroads, we gave them typical American hospitality and told them to leave. If they did'nt we made it hell for them.
Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
After working them to death on the railroads, we gave them typical American hospitality and told them to leave. If they did'nt we made it hell for them.
Joined: Apr 23, 2008 Posts: 45 Location: Georgia, USA
Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
Nickel wrote:
Windmills wrote:
China's power as an exporter will then wane with the increasing price of oil, and manufacturing will become more local once again, just like agriculture. They can only sustain their oil subsidies for so long before the populace must bear the full force of the market prices and have their middle class crushed back down into the peasantry once again. I wouldn't get too worked up over China. Their days are as numbered as anyone else's, perhaps even more so.
Unbelievable wishful thinking. You don't understand what China set out to do thirty years ago. They're using us -- our greed -- to build their infrastructure. We've been transferring HUGE amounts of money, technical know-how, and infrastructure over to them, hollowing out our own abilities on all these fronts. All the while, they've been raising the standard of living in China, slowly building a real, deep, broad middle class. They're not going to be crushed; they're going to become what we are, or used to be: the heart of the global economy. They've GOT the money, not us. They're lending us our own money these days to keep pilling on the lard for our own heart attack. Once they've got a sufficiently large enough consumer class, they're going to cut us loose. They'll start consuming domestically, rather than shovelling goodies out the door to us for a nickel a ton. They'll be consuming their own production, building profits off their own consumption, and offering us what's left over for whatever price they can extract from us. Do you really think that a nation of 1.3 billion people, finally sufficiently financed, is going to have a hard time taking up the slack of an exhausted, hollowed-out "sole superpower" of only 300 million customers? Even if the average person in China had only 1/4 the income of the average person on the US, they'd be able to cover that without putting a single container on a single ship.
Give your head a shake, Arizona. We're in trouble.
Exactly. My brother recently spent a few weeks in China and he said that the game is already over. They have eaten our lunch. The infrastructure projects that he saw in progress put us to shame. They are constructing huge projects everywhere. Think of it like building one of our major cities from the ground up in one big massive push. They have plenty of money and everyone is working like ants. Meanwhile, our infrastructure is crumbling to the ground and we have to beg China for money to fund our exploits in Iraq.
Does anyone else think it is obscene that our American flags and "patriotic" lapel pins are made in CHINA? The plastic American flag that I was handed at our local Memorial Day parade bore the proud marking of "Made in China" When we can't even produce our own national flags (and no one even cares), the game is OVER.
Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Re: We have become the bitch of China.
All America produces these days are guns, beer, and prostitutes. Do your patriotic duty!
On a serious note, the process of sending our dollars and infrastructure to China seems to have accelerated over the last 10 years or so. I'm only in my early 20s, but I've been concerned about outsourcing trends since I was a teenager and I remember buying consumer goods made in Indonesia, Honduras, Israel, etc. back in the day. Now it's ALL made in China and there's no way around it--you can't even decide to buy Honduran, let alone American.
Yes, when American flags and "support the troops" magnets are made in China, the game's over.
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