How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
I hope everyone doesn't mind me starting a specific thread for GM, Ford, and Chrysler. Things are starting to worsen so quickly now, especially for GM, that I thought it might be a good idea to condense it all into one thread. Everyone, please post any news here regarding the Big Three's troubles. But please don't post any Big Three hybrid, hydrogen, or electric technology news in this thread. Thanks.
GM shares slide to their lowest level since 1955, running short on cash
Quote:
Shares of General Motors Corp hit their lowest level since 1955 and dragged down the auto sector on Thursday after Goldman Sachs cut the struggling U.S. industry's largest manufacturer to a "sell" rating and warned it would have to raise capital.
The panicky slide in GM shares capped a period of growing concern about liquidity risks to U.S. automakers and suppliers from a domestic auto market reeling from record gas prices and the impact of a housing slump and tighter credit.
The Goldman Sachs warning, including the unusual "sell" call on the U.S. auto industry's largest player after a period of sharp stock price declines just ahead of the close of the second quarter, prompted selling across the sector.
GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner said the embattled automaker had enough liquidity to carry it through the year and had financial flexibility beyond that.
"We've got a very good, solid funding base under any scenario we see, solid through the end of this year," Wagoner told reporters after an economic event hosted by U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama. "We have a lot of options to fund beyond that."
Chrysler LLC, for its part, denied rumors it was facing a cash crunch or that it had been driven to filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Those rumors had driven down loan prices for the privately held automaker, according to Reuters LPC.
"The rumor is without merit," Chrysler spokesman Dave Elshoff said. "There is no basis for the rumor."
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
There are now fewer jobs in Detroit than before European colonisation. US triumphs again. _________________ People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement & cannibalism.
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
Quote:
An investor who wants to buy credit protection on $10 million in GM's bonds for five years currently has to pay $2.8 million upfront and $500,000 annually for that insurance, through what are called credit-default swaps. A year ago, that protection cost only $400,000 annually, with no upfront cost, according to Credit Derivatives Research LLC.
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
Maybe US should throw in the towel and give Michigan back to the native Americans. 232 years of it have been so successful. _________________ People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement & cannibalism.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4230 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
The state still has an excellent fruit growing operation. Peaches, plums, cherries, etc.
Quote:
GM market cap ($6.5B) is worth about 30% less than southwest airlines ($9.9B) (LUV) .... Right now, I think Southwest is the better investment, wow.
Quote by someone over on marketwatch. Pretty sad.
GM pretty much has to file bankruptcy? They can't afford to keep paying all those retires benefits/etc. _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 637 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
On a health care front, failure of one of the big three may guarantee a change in the health care of the US. Remember, they are essential health care insurers who happen to make cars. Universal health care, probably. What they get now or what they expect, not a chance.
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
For a good many years now it has seemed like the big three were nothing but finance companies who provided healthcare and retiree benefits via financing a few cars.
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4230 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
OMG
Quote:
CHELSEA, Mich. - Gas prices are above $4 per gallon. Full-size pickup truck sales are down more than 21 percent through May. The U.S. auto market is in a downward funk. Great time to introduce a new pickup truck, right?
Strange as it may seem, that's what Chrysler LLC executives are thinking when it comes to the new 2009 Dodge Ram, due in showrooms by September or October.
"We're actually pretty optimistic about it," said Deborah Wahl Meyer, Chrysler's marketing chief, who adds that despite a downturn, pickups remain the largest segment of the market. "There's a large group of core people who need trucks."
...
"It's all going to come back," he said. "It's taking a severe hit, there's no doubt, and were feeling that pain right now."
Whats that about fools and money?
I say Dodge is first to go. _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
GM Officials Briefly Consider Merger with Ford
Quote:
Business Week reports, "At a few recent meetings, General Motors executives have mused aloud about the prospects of a merger with rival Ford Motors." The idea "went no further than some internal banter, according to sources briefed on one of the meetings." GM executives concluded "that it would be a huge distraction at a time when management needs to focus on a turnaround." Business Week comments, however, that "the very fact that anyone [at GM] brought it up shows just how much peril America's carmakers face."
The theoretical merger would have some benefits. "Savings from overlap in massive overhead costs would save the combined entity billions," Business Week notes, and "its combined cash hoard of more than $50 billion could help the company survive what most analysts expect to be a year or two of weak sales."
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
Could High Gas Prices Kill Chrysler?
Quote:
Imagine this -- In a few years, we could be talking about the Big Two Detroit automakers. Speculation has begun that high gas prices could kill off one storied American brand.
The Detroit News reports, "Chrysler Chairman and CEO Bob Nardelli warned of worsening U.S. automotive sales and encouraged employees to stay focused in an e-mail sent to workers Tuesday." The automaker has already announced plans to plans to "cut shifts at five assembly plants," idle one large truck factory for at least five weeks this summer, and "reduce its headcount by 12,000 workers."
According to Reuters, Nardelli predicted that "industry-wide U.S. sales in June were expected to fall to the lowest level in 16 years." Chrysler's sales have fallen more than those of any other U.S. automaker this year, "as it struggled with a product line-up that relies more on trucks and SUVs than its larger rivals at a time when more Americans are looking to buy smaller and more fuel-efficient vehicles."
More than any other automaker in recent years, Chrysler has built its image on power -- featuring fuel-thirsty Hemi V8s heavily in its advertising, naming its cars with firearm terms (Caliber, Magnum), and bad superhero names (Avenger), and pouring resources into the debut of the 2009 Dodge Challenger -- a big, powerful muscle car. Autoblog adds, "The next vehicle set to debut for Dodge is the completely new Ram, which will appear just as gas prices have seriously trimmed truck sales."
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4042 Location: Memphis
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:43 pm Post subject: Re: GM, Ford, and Chrysler Death Watch Thread
I am virtually certain that GM will seek bankruptcy protection fairly soon. One of the immense benefits GM would see from this move would be that it would enable it to jettison virtually all of its retiree medical and some of its pension plan costs.
In many ways GM is the perfect candidate for bankruptcy protection, since one of the best features of bankruptcy for a company like that is it can basically reject all of its non-core contracts--i.e., all of its contracts with individuals who are no longer working.
It would also give GM the opportunity to re-negotiate all of its current agreements with union employees, which would undoubtedly mean lower wages and fewer benefits for those who did get to keep their jobs.
Why on earth did GM not see this fuel price situation coming for the last five years (at least)? I have no idea. It boggles my mind that GM just wandered down the big truck and SUV road, apparently never considering what a rapid increase in gas prices would do to that business.
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