Balance; Living well vs survival?

duke · Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:31 am Post subject: Balance; Living well vs survival?

As we have reviewed many threads on many sites including here...we have seen some real strange comments at times. Usually they try to pit living a normal life vs trying to survive in a crisis.

For example;
Some post that they will go and live in the woods, state park, national forests or some other remote location. We chuckle. Having worked for a big game outfitter in Idaho and gone recreational camping, as the latter is the only experience of most of you have...well the two are two differant worlds.

Running off to the woods is certain death and not real far out in the future. In every case when such a plan is given it always is...in great weather conditions. Ever notice that? Like late spring to summer when...there might be some edible wild plants around?

When the dirt roads have dried out after winter. When they are now even open after being covered in snow.... No one ever wants to discuss going "back to the woods" in the fall or winter or wet spring run off seasons. Gee I wonder why?

Because you could not get there? You would die if you were already there and winter came? One thing is for sure...next spring the next group of nice season campers would find your picked over bones in the woods.

A couple weeks out in the woods is about all anyone can take or live off of the provisions they carried in. Living off of "meat" will give not last long. No way to save what you just shot. Whoops...there goes that nasty gunshot noise again. Now all the other campers will come sneaking your way to plunder your camp or take your fresh meat.... Fresh for how long? Smoke the meat...whoops there goes that wood smoke and smell again and it will be noticed for many miles. Start the chiansaw to cut more wodd? Darn forgot the gas ran out two days ago. Axe and hand saw... how about you cut all the firewood you will need then right now and see just how far that plan will really work. I also can see a camp fire glow for a long ways at night.

When we read about how many people are going to run to the woods... I can only imagine how crowded it will be. Fighting, stealing, killing and more.

Sorry folks if you are going to have a plan to hide out, it better be an all season plan. Disasters are not summer time only....

Best to just relocate to a place where you can live a normal daily life and develop it into your survival refuge at the same time. Traveling is only a possible option if.... the roads are open to begin with. Just who did you think was going to be out there plowing the roads and clearing the car wrecks out of you way anyway???

MyOldTDiIsStillGoing

Ah. duke, you are up early for a Saturday morning. A few days go I was stuck in a lovely corporate meeting so in my boredom, I though of what are the essentials for survival since so many post and blogs are out there on this topic. By using the 8 items as a checklist, the confusion sorta smooths out. I broke it into the core necessity and the supplemental items to either support the core or added items to help in survival. If we run to the woods to survive, will we survive or die off?

Is there anything else that needs to be added? Don’t want to make it too complicated.

I agree with you that survive needs to happen anywhere, not just in the back woods. I am working on my survival in the urban jungle:

The Core FSC
1) FOOD/ Water
2) Shelter
3) Clothing

HPUTE
4) Health
5) Protection/ Security
6) Utilities
7) Transportation
8 ) Entertainment/ Recreation
(simple as playing cards with your neighbors with an old deck of card)

allenwrench · Intermediate Crude Joined: Apr 23, 2008 Posts: 728

Yes, good advice.

BTW, I tried to boondock at state parks and get thrown out.

duke

Hi Guys...

I usually rise at 4:30 and crash at 9:00.

I don't think I could help much on an urban list as we have been country folks for so long. The only public utility we have is electric power and for that to go away for a few years would not hurt us.

We have a 40k, 15k and two 5.5k generators with fuel for years. They will run anything we might ever need to do here. They also have had "extreme silencing" applied to them and one can not hear them now off our spread.

Detection of surviving is one of my greatest concerns. All of us intend on presenting the appearance that no one is even here.

We have no intention of leaving here as we know the lay of our land and all our long term stuff is here. It could snow 12' like last year and we would be very comfy.

But.... I just would hate it when our German Shepherds start dragging home the parts of frozen survival campers from the perimeter woods somewhere? Then again, the 1.5 year dog food supply would last longer. Heck... there is always a bright side to most dumb things:).

Going fishing now on the boat with my lovely wife. Bye... We store most of the fish...just in case.

benzoil

Duke raises a good point that I've often thought about. Unless you are an experienced woodsman (woodsperson) and the crisis is of relatively short duration, hiding out in the hinterlands is not an option.

Not only does such a plan assume a short duration, it assumes that there will be some imminent event that you will recognize as "The Trigger". Neither is likely to be the case, IMHO. I think we're in for a slow slide with a series of short drops, but nothing that causes all the machinery to seize up all at once. It won't be OMIGODHEREITIS! Rome didn't fall in a day.

Someone posted a piece from Mike Ruppert this morning about how those of us who've been PO-aware need to get our act together as PO enters the mainstream. I disagree with Mike on a variety of things (911, chief among them), but he's got a good point here. Other than Richard Heinberg there really isn't a plan or cohesive agreement on what a post-PO world will look like during transition.

Maybe it's time to try to agree on some principles. Like, "This is a crisis that will last a generation...or longer." Or, "Some things are beyond our control, but individuals and communities can mitigate some of the problems."

In the meantime, feel free to prep a BOB, but let's try to come up with more plausible scenarios than a massive Black Swan instant collapse.
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TANSTAAFL

Narz

The woods ain't big enough for most of us. I'm skeptical that almost anyone here who's a regular poster could really "rough it" out there for more than six months (except maybe in perhaps tropical climates like Hawaii).

I was born in civilization & will die in civilization (though not necessarily a big city or suburb). Hopefully not for a long time!
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Ludi

MyOldTDiIsStillGoing

FireJack · Heavy Crude Joined: Mar 16, 2005 Posts: 449

It doesn't have to be survival in the wilderness just getting used to losing what oil has given us. All your food will have to come locally (through yourself or someone nearby) and there will be little or more likely no electricity or natural gas etc. Depending on your area no water either. Having a woodstove you can cook on would be a big help, and all those other things people did 100 years before.

Right now it looks like its going to be denial to the end. When shortages begin and oil prices continue to skyrocket it is this constant reassurance that the saudi's will flood the market and everything will be okay. The ones who sit around and wait for someone to rescue them will be the ones to look out for. I think mobility will be your best friend, being able to go from place to place and moving when it gets dangerous. At least until the initial die-off phase is done and the useless people are dead and those who are left can fend for themselves.

Ludi

dunewalker

Ludi, you'll brighten any camp you land in...
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"I believe that a wise Vermonter lives more by lack of expense rather than from income."--some Dartmouth professor from across the river

mos6507

Ludi

Pops

My opinion is most folks who talk about going native are just talking to themselves to keep from actually doing anything.

Save oowolf and the like, most are just talking.
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Make a plan and work it:

Waterthrush

Don't forget Birch! I think he really did leave and pull the briar gate closed behind him, as he said he would do. I was in awe of Birch.