Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
The expansion of liberalism has been largely fueled by cheap oil.
Only when a country is fat and happy beyond all normal measure do ivory tower elitists have time to turn their attention to such pressing matters as gender bias among the wild Mustang Herds of the Great Plains.
As food gets scarce, so too will liberal thought.
Of course, the good parts of liberalism will die as well, such as the basic defense of civil liberties.
Oh well, screw saving the whales and saving the first amendment. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 5350 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
Cashmere wrote:
the good parts of liberalism will die as well, such as the basic defense of civil liberties.
Oh well, screw saving the whales and saving the first amendment.
Liberals aren't so good on the second amendment.
Their concern for "civil liberties" is selective at best.
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
Plantagenet wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
the good parts of liberalism will die as well, such as the basic defense of civil liberties.
Oh well, screw saving the whales and saving the first amendment.
Liberals aren't so good on the second amendment.
Their concern for "civil liberties" is selective at best.
Pick and choose. Eat the meat, spit out the bones. Only this time, we're choking on the bones.
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
Don't be as quick as to discredit liberals for their social contributions.
Liberals have allowed for many civl-rights and still push for many needed.
Balance.
If it was 100% it wouldn't have any limits and an out of control society, if it was 100% conservative you would have dictatorship.
A lot of liberals who are against drilling usually have a good point.
Regardless of our current problems if the environment is in bad shape it harms us more than just 'the birds are dying!'
If the environment was disregarded you would have something like 1850 London or worse, useless land which contributes to a whole other issue of extinction.
Short term usually it doesn't seem practical to not drill but long term it does us more harm than good.
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
Save the real estate speculators! Crush the renters! _________________ People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement & cannibalism.
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
Cashmere wrote:
The expansion of liberalism has been largely fueled by cheap oil.
O\.
That hasn't been because people don't have to do work, its because more education was avaliable and therefor people are able to gain a broader knowledge and points of view.
In all honesty even in the PO crisis I don't see social liberalism dying off. As the world becomes more isolated it will flourish in liberal areas and suffer in conservative areas while areas with 50/50 will either bitch at eachother or deal with one another.
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
socrates1fan wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
The expansion of liberalism has been largely fueled by cheap oil.
O\.
That hasn't been because people don't have to do work, its because more education was available and therefor people are able to gain a broader knowledge and points of view.
We disagree.
Education without food leads to barbarism.
But even if we presume, for this argument, that you're right, then you're wrong.
Why?
Because just like, for the last 100 years,
oil has equaled food,
also,
oil has equaled education.
Or did you think that 70% of children putting off growing up for 4 years getting psych and history and sports medicine degrees and playing X-box 12 hours a day and clubbing 6 nights a week was not 100% dependent on cheap oil.
Damn. Really folks.
I'm that good. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
socrates1fan wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
The expansion of liberalism has been largely fueled by cheap oil.
O\.
That hasn't been because people don't have to do work, its because more education was avaliable and therefor people are able to gain a broader knowledge and points of view.
In all honesty even in the PO crisis I don't see social liberalism dying off. As the world becomes more isolated it will flourish in liberal areas and suffer in conservative areas while areas with 50/50 will either bitch at eachother or deal with one another.
Will the world really flourish in liberal areas? Really? I am a conservative. I have four kids. To a liberal, too large a family. To a conservative, well, to be honest, now-a-days, too large a family. If we really want to get serious and cut to the chase, in a post oil world, liberals will be hurting. Conservatives will be hurting, homosexuals will be cast away, and catholics will thrive. No, I'm not a catholic. I'm a conservative republican protestant. Why will catholics be thriving? One reason. In a post oil world, he with the most children to put to work wins. Choose to argue and flame if you will, but thousands of years pre-oil history is what you are arguing against. We've had our fifty year fling. It's over. Time to get back to the basics. Large families and slavery. Don't think the latter won't happen. Again, thousands of years of pre-oil history will dispute you.
Last edited by Buggy on Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
Cashmere wrote:
socrates1fan wrote:
Cashmere wrote:
The expansion of liberalism has been largely fueled by cheap oil.
O\.
That hasn't been because people don't have to do work, its because more education was available and therefor people are able to gain a broader knowledge and points of view.
We disagree.
Education without food leads to barbarism.
But even if we presume, for this argument, that you're right, then you're wrong.
Why?
Because just like, for the last 100 years,
oil has equaled food,
also,
oil has equaled education.
Or did you think that 70% of children putting off growing up for 4 years getting psych and history and sports medicine degrees and playing X-box 12 hours a day and clubbing 6 nights a week was not 100% dependent on cheap oil.
Damn. Really folks.
I'm that good.
I'd have to disagree with that however.
Education was not created by cheap oil, but available education to the lower and middle class was caused by a fuel-based society.
The ideas of liberalism and whether or not it can continue is not based off of cheap fuel. It isn't like after all this our social system will return to 1734. To do that you would have to wipe out anyone who was already social liberal(a very large population) and every record, book, painting, etc that encouraged thinking outside the box.
Having no food and having an education doesn't neccarely make you anything but it makes you not really care about your education as much as it does getting some food in your system.
But in long run society people will have food(after all these problems.) and people arent going to suddenly all become socially conservative.
Had the later 20th century never happened and PO happened in the 1930's then perhaps yes, people would abandon ideas of liberalism and head for the ideas of the past.
Having a degree doesn't neccarely make you succesful but going to college gives kids an oppurtunity to learn about things such as art, history, physcology, science, etc but you seem to write those all off as useless yet they are so vital to our culture even before the 20th century. I don't always approve of how my generation is often caught up in things like gossip, trends, and what's hip and new, but this sort of culture has always exsisted, even back in the middle ages the younger generation always wanted a buffer between them and the previous generation while gossiping their asses off.
A society of conservatism without liberalism(and within that art, history, etc) is a culture without balance and a grimm future.
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
Buggy wrote:
To a liberal, too large a family. To a conservative, well, to be honest, now-a-days, too large a family. If we really want to get serious and cut to the chase, in a post oil world, liberals will be hurting. Conservatives will be hurting, homosexuals will be cast away, and catholics will thrive. No, I'm not a catholic. I'm a conservative republican protestant. Why will catholics be thriving? One reason. In a post oil world, he with the most children to put to work wins. Choose to argue and flame if you will, but thousands of years pre-oil history is what you are arguing against. We've had our fifty year fling. It's over. Time to get back to the basics. Large families and slavery. Don't think the latter won't happen. Again, thousands of years of pre-oil history will dispute you.
the past repeating itself and the human being inability to learn from the past. MAKE BABIES!!! MAKE BABIES!!! Proclaimed God!
Look how the Catholics in Mexico are thriving so much they burst their seems and flood into America.
I don’t think it matters about being liberal or conservative. People will switch perspectives depending on their view of the sh!t storm
Last edited by ColossalContrarian on Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: the true color of "liberals"
An interesting thread for sure. I think liberalism will be in trouble because it is often the path of least personal responsibility and the most of some faceless entity "the government" that can provide _____ for free if we will just let it. Too often liberalism = belief in Santa Claus.
Now, that is not to say that things like the civil rights movement were wrong, it was in fact a good thing. However, the current liberal movement seems to be reduced to trying to convince everyone that the government can provide everything if we will just let it.
As for the comment that too conservative leads to a dictatorship, that is soooo wrong. A true conservative believes in all 10 of the Bill of Rights and the rest of the Constitution as written. He also believes in personal responsibility and a minimal government that stays out of his and everyone else's personal lives.
A true conservative would think of shooting a wouild-be dictator with his thanks to the second amendment legal firearm. Following one would be out of the question. If anything, it is liberalism that will lead to a dictator as they will be seeking someone who can make everything magically better.
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