How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Think nothing of it.
As a side note, George W. Bush has authorized a 15 million dollar aid gift to the affected, along with a 20 million line of credit.
As another side note, GWB's inauguration parties, that is parties, celebrations, to honor GWB, which are OPTIONAL, and not mandatory, nor required by law, not concerned with the saving of human life nor the counting of any dead, will cost US taxpayers 30 mil.
We are a compassionate people. There is no war for oil.
I can't express how totally disgusted I am with my fellow US citizens right now. I'm totally disgusted with myself as well. As soon as I figure out how to give money to someone who will try to help these people to protect themselves from the diseases that will come from rotting human bodies and animals as well as ruined water wells, I will give every cent I can spare. My gut reaction is to give to the Catholic Charities, as I understand that they are pretty good in third world countries.
Suggestions?
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:08 pm Post subject: US Largesse
THe pathetic reality of the situtation is this: All of the money vomited forth from the US to these filthy third world'ers will be rat-holed by corrupt gov't and business officials. This is why the THird World IS THE THIRD WORLD. It's their culture, stupid. There is no altruism, no compassion, the third world is simply a pile of corpses where the living try to claw their way to the top- only a few make it. Life is cheap- they routinely sell their children for Christ's sake!
As soon as I figure out how to give money to someone who will try to help these people to protect themselves from the diseases that will come from rotting human bodies and animals as well as ruined water wells, I will give every cent I can spare. My gut reaction is to give to the Catholic Charities, as I understand that they are pretty good in third world countries.
Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 220 Location: Queensland, Australia
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:36 am Post subject:
Hoplite, as opposed to others I am going to touch that one. I would like to declare you some form of scum but that would be similar to declaring the populations and political structures of the democracies damaged by this calamity to be corrupt.
India - is actually the worlds largest democracy with true multi party structures and relatively low corruption for the pure size of the nation. Yes theyt are partially stagnated by their social and religious structures but theyt have managed to grow at a massive rate, without collapsing into any form of political oligarchy.
Indonesia - is barely 5 years out from a revolution that threw out a Us supported tyrant who ruled through corruption. They have just held their first completely free presidential election, with a higher turnout (absolute and relative) than the US with more success ( barely any complaints of problems etc ). The nation is also pursueing and jailing corrupt members of the old regieme.
Sri Lanka - A very accomodating democracy which has lived with groteque suicide bombing separitists for over twnty years and has had no less than 3 nationwide elections in the middle of bloodthirsty civil wars. An unbelievably honest nation I have found with people returning lost money and pursueing me down the street to return 2 cents in mispaid change. The people crave education and advancement honestly. I would of flown there this week if I would actually have some advanced medical skills to help, they do not need more basic labourers. So large donations of money have had to do. Although I plan on going for a month next year to help rebuild if I can. (And there I was planning on backpacking Brazil)
Malaysia - While somewhat afflicted with old fashioned political structures the nation as a whole is accelerating towards true democracy with a rapidly solidifying rule of law.
Thailand - Or Siam in old terms, this nation has been one of the most stable within asia over the last 150 years progressing from monarchy through to constitutional monarchy with parliamentary democracy. Their was a coup attempt about 10 years ago but members of parliament actually joined with the police in defending the parliament and a number died ejecting the coup forces. (Yeah lets see the US congress break out the side arms and defend the doors of the house with their own blood) Since then the nation has grown and politically appears as sound as it has ever been.
Burma/Myamar - The only real third world non democracy amongst those damaged. How has this nation managed to survive after a decade of oppressing it's own peoples easy, money from mineral and oil rights sales to large international companies. The corrupting power of cheap oil and the copious cash that it brings without responsibility.
All in all I find your generalised statements about the conditions of these nations and what would happen to aid money to be a particulary craven form of radical conservatism, nationalism and racism that is a truly ugly mix.
Sorry all for the particularly emotional input here, but I can read the original comment with nothing but disgust, as I read of 80 000 confirmed dead and the worst 2 districts of Indonesia yet to even be entered. 2 cities of 50 000 appear to be over 80% destroyed and 8, 10 000 person towns have completely vanished and they have not even been counted yet. Over 8000 foreigners including 5000 westerners are outrightly missing in malaysia/thailand and after 4 and a half days many would have to be considered dead. Thats a 911 and a half's worth of Europeans, Japanese and others gone. Over 100 doctors have volunteered from my nation and we have sent more money than the US.
Comments like the above will only continue to be seized by radicals and used to poison the minds of the masses against the good that is still able to come out of the US, and 'patriotic' cries of 'bring it on, you third world commie trash' and the like will never help.
Joined: Oct 27, 2004 Posts: 220 Location: Queensland, Australia
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:00 am Post subject:
Justamom
You probably could come with, but your handle indicates other commitments. After the first $1500 to get there you will spend less than $1000 to live there for a month in local luxury. Putting in 15 days of building effort will give you 15 days of rest.
This is how most of my holidays for the last 6 years have been. More than half the cost is getting there. I've bummed around South africa, Botswana, Namibia and Zim for months, half on the back of a truck, the rest on foot (listen to your guide here, do not chase your oryx into a minefield, or you go hungry). Done Tanzania and Mozambique sleeping on beaches. ( hmm may have to rethink that following said Tsunamis.) Egypt while interesting for 5-6 days, sucked after 20 and the culture really dragged me down, also no chance now for securities sake. Colombo was fantastic and spending just a week with save the children turned me into a saint by local standards. Spent a month in Beijing Hutongs teaching conversational English (Within 250 metres of the main shopping street, Tianamen and the forbidden city, Very good local money, helped my elderly neighbour in the garden and helped a young couple with bub build a partial extension onto house.) before packing to Tsingtao.
Live with the lower middle class, (no worse than school/summer camp) offering help through aid organisations and the locals look at you like some form of minor god. Enjoy the social immersion and you barely need to know any local lingo. ( Sing along in bars, be polite and friendly, profess a following of soccer, know how to curse the offside rule and above all offer to help without being asked. In other words act like a long lost relative rather than a tourist. ) Never be afraid of embarrassment , in many of these countries just talking with you is quite possibly the most interesting thing that has happened in a month, If you do something silly it will just be amusing.
Every one of my holidays the money (50+%) has all been in the airfares. Anyone who is thinking of a holiday that is different next year, can seriously consider a trip to Indo, Sri lanka, India etc to help. After the worst part of the disaster is resolved the rebuilding will continue for at least a year and aid organisations will help you get there cheap. For those like me who spend 10 months of the year in an AC office this can be paradise, and certainly different. It will also expose you to low power living and introduce you to what may be a more general western form of life in 15-25 years, with more physical work.
Think nothing of it.
As a side note, George W. Bush has authorized a 15 million dollar aid gift to the affected, along with a 20 million line of credit.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: The Charity Thread
I've been recommending to everyone that we should send plane loads of doctors to places all over the world to offer free sterilization. Hopefully, that would reduce poverty a lot more that just giving them more food.
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