Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 419 Location: I have a whole ward
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: No smoking hot spot
"I DEVOTED six years to carbon accounting, building models for the Australian Greenhouse Office. I am the rocket scientist who wrote the carbon accounting model (FullCAM) that measures Australia's compliance with the Kyoto Protocol, in the land use change and forestry sector."
"But since 1999 new evidence has seriously weakened the case that carbon emissions are the main cause of global warming, and by 2007 the evidence was pretty conclusive that carbon played only a minor role and was not the main cause of the recent global warming. As Lord Keynes famously said, "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?"
link _________________ Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 1744 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
I can't be bothered with this crap anyways. No one seems to know for sure what the fcuk is going on. So I've trotted out my truck and to heck with recycling. I'll be dead anyways so who cares if the alarmists were right. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
cipi604 wrote:
Nice article. I do believe that is correct, although CO2 is increasing the acidity of the oceans... and that's a real problem.
This year the north pole was supposed to melt completely... what happened?
Actually I seem to recall that the latest pronouncement was that it was expected to be completely ice free during the summer months by the end of the decade or shortly thereafter... _________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
GW is dying a slow death. It will take some more time. A few more years of a cooling earth, in combination with oil depletion, will drive it out of the headlines and into the graveyard.
I think we should bury it next to Y2K. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
I suggest you really do need to do some research on folks who claim they are right and so many others are wrong. Dr David Evans is NOT a climate scientists. In fact he is not a scientists at all. He is a electrical engineer, computer programmer and stock jock.
link
BTW Lavoisier are a fossil fuel packed GW denier organization.
link
Please do some homework other than just believing it is true because you read it in a newspaper.
Greg
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:08 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
GregWatson wrote:
I suggest you really do need to do some research on folks who claim they are right and so many others are wrong. Dr David Evans is NOT a climate scientists. In fact he is not a scientists at all. He is a electrical engineer, computer programmer and stock jock.
link
BTW Lavoisier are a fossil fuel packed GW denier organization.
link
Please do some homework other than just believing it is true because you read it in a newspaper.
Greg
Mr. Watson, you've amply proven your disdain for the man making the argument.
Now answer the man's argument.
What about the hot spot, Mr. Watson?
By the way, on a personal note, when I see somebody use the word "denier" I immediately suspect that they are afraid of the argument being made against them. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
GregWatson wrote:
I suggest you really do need to do some research on folks who claim they are right and so many others are wrong. Dr David Evans is NOT a climate scientists. In fact he is not a scientists at all. He is a electrical engineer, computer programmer and stock jock.
link
BTW Lavoisier are a fossil fuel packed GW denier organization.
link
Please do some homework other than just believing it is true because you read it in a newspaper.
Greg
What qualifies as a scientist? He has a PhD from Stanford in EE. _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
Kingcoal wrote:
GregWatson wrote:
I suggest you really do need to do some research on folks who claim they are right and so many others are wrong. Dr David Evans is NOT a climate scientists. In fact he is not a scientists at all. He is a electrical engineer, computer programmer and stock jock.
link
BTW Lavoisier are a fossil fuel packed GW denier organization.
link
Please do some homework other than just believing it is true because you read it in a newspaper.
Greg
What qualifies as a scientist? He has a PhD from Stanford in EE
The best thing about the pro-GW side is that they are happy to quote their own numbers where "3,000 scientists all agree", but if you cite to anything but a PhD in climatology from a top 10 school, your cite has no credentials. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Joined: Oct 27, 2006 Posts: 740 Location: Soviet Canada
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
Cashmere wrote:
Kingcoal wrote:
GregWatson wrote:
I suggest you really do need to do some research on folks who claim they are right and so many others are wrong. Dr David Evans is NOT a climate scientists. In fact he is not a scientists at all. He is a electrical engineer, computer programmer and stock jock.
link
BTW Lavoisier are a fossil fuel packed GW denier organization.
link
Please do some homework other than just believing it is true because you read it in a newspaper.
Greg
What qualifies as a scientist? He has a PhD from Stanford in EE
The best thing about the pro-GW side is that they are happy to quote their own numbers where "3,000 scientists all agree", but if you cite to anything but a PhD in climatology from a top 10 school, your cite has no credentials.
It's unfortunate that doctine, and ideology have inserted themselves into the science of climate change (or more precisely, the study of planetary climate.)
Even that word (climate CHANGE) gives me pause. It shows an assumption. It's not scientifically correct.
Their is so much data, and phenomena to study, and correlate in regards to this issue, that it becomes confusing. At least to people who only skim the surface of the issue.
I see nothing wrong with an electrical engineer having criticisms of the science, and prognostications. It's useful to keep the people working on this honest. You don't need to understand climate models, or glacial melt rates to criticize methodology. As long as the methodology is kept honest, this whole thing may become more clear.
Myself, I am of the mind that human activity is definitely having an effect on global climate, but I have no idea how much, or how bad it is.
I am relying on people who know what they are talking about, but also people who understand how science works keeping those people honest.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
Nice gampy.
I agree, and I note again that people trying to stifle another with shouts of "denialist" and "uncredentialed" really, IMO, should make everyone pause. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
From the article linked in the OP:
Quote:
The satellites that measure the world's temperature all say that the warming trend ended in 2001, and that the temperature has dropped about 0.6C in the past year (to the temperature of 1980).
Ummm... excuse me, but a one year reversal over a span of decades (or even a 6 year pause followed by a 1 year reversal if you wish to see it that way) does not constitute a disproval of anything.
This whole article amounts to little more than a straw man. Climatologists do not assert that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are the cause of GW. What they say is that there are numerous, complexly interacting factors including (but not limited to) variations in solar input, cloud cover, surface reflectivity, forest cover, etc. There are also biological and geophysical feedbacks coming into play, such as CO2 and methane release from melting permafrost and ocean clathrates. The general consensus regarding specifically anthropogenic emissions is that they are likely a primary driver of the current warming trend, not that they are the cause.
Nothing to see here folks... _________________ "It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:42 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
TWilliam wrote:
From the article linked in the OP:
Quote:
The satellites that measure the world's temperature all say that the warming trend ended in 2001, and that the temperature has dropped about 0.6C in the past year (to the temperature of 1980).
Ummm... excuse me, but a one year reversal over a span of decades (or even a 6 year pause followed by a 1 year reversal if you wish to see it that way) does not constitute a disproval of anything.
This whole article amounts to little more than a straw man. Climatologists do not assert that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are the cause of GW. What they say is that there are numerous, complexly interacting factors including (but not limited to) variations in solar input, cloud cover, surface reflectivity, forest cover, etc. There are also biological and geophysical feedbacks coming into play, such as CO2 and methane release from melting permafrost and ocean clathrates. The general consensus regarding specifically anthropogenic emissions is that they are likely a primary driver of the current warming trend, not that they are the cause.
Nothing to see here folks...
What about the hot spot TW? Answer that:
Quote:
The signature of an increased greenhouse effect is a hot spot about 10km up in the atmosphere over the tropics. We have been measuring the atmosphere for decades using radiosondes: weather balloons with thermometers that radio back the temperature as the balloon ascends through the atmosphere. They show no hot spot. Whatsoever.
If there is no hot spot then an increased greenhouse effect is not the cause of global warming. So we know for sure that carbon emissions are not a significant cause of the global warming. If we had found the greenhouse signature then I would be an alarmist again.
_________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
Kingcoal wrote:
GregWatson wrote:
I suggest you really do need to do some research on folks who claim they are right and so many others are wrong. Dr David Evans is NOT a climate scientists. In fact he is not a scientists at all. He is a electrical engineer, computer programmer and stock jock.
link
BTW Lavoisier are a fossil fuel packed GW denier organization.
link
Please do some homework other than just believing it is true because you read it in a newspaper.
Greg
What qualifies as a scientist? He has a PhD from Stanford in EE
I am trying to think of a single Electrical Engineering course requirement that gives someone a backround to scientifically evaluate GW.
Leveraging his involvement as a carbon bookkeeper (which also gives no backround into what the carbon he is counting actually does in nature) into sensational Denialist (and yet completely non-scientific) headlines earns him a good living, I am sure, but a credible source he is not.
Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: No smoking hot spot
Fiddlerdave wrote:
Kingcoal wrote:
GregWatson wrote:
I suggest you really do need to do some research on folks who claim they are right and so many others are wrong. Dr David Evans is NOT a climate scientists. In fact he is not a scientists at all. He is a electrical engineer, computer programmer and stock jock.
link
BTW Lavoisier are a fossil fuel packed GW denier organization.
link
Please do some homework other than just believing it is true because you read it in a newspaper.
Greg
What qualifies as a scientist? He has a PhD from Stanford in EE
I am trying to think of a single Electrical Engineering course requirement that gives someone a backround to scientifically evaluate GW.
Leveraging his involvement as a carbon bookkeeper (which also gives no backround into what the carbon he is counting actually does in nature) into sensational Denialist (and yet completely non-scientific) headlines earns him a good living, I am sure, but a credible source he is not.
Anybody keeping count?
The GW side has now offered the following in response to the OP - -
2 accusations of "denialist".
2 accusations of "uncredentialled".
Zero responses to the argument offered by our double E protagonist.
Any GW supporters out there want to answer the man's argument?
His argument is - NO HOT SPOT. REJOIN.
I put it in caps to make it easier to see through the fog of ad hominem hot air. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
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