I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: Abiotic Oil
I read today that some expert said Oil is Abiotic, It forms in the Earth's mantle and reproduces. As a newby here, I was saying to myself, "This can't be true, how would it (oil) form thius way". Have others heard this or is mumbo-jumbo.
Joined: Mar 25, 2008 Posts: 812 Location: Alif Lam Mim
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: Re: Abiotic Oil
It's mumbo-jumbo. Fact: Oil and gas only occur in sedimentary formations which are where organic materials are/were. Abiotics claim that oil and gas is formed deep inside the Earth. But if that were the case, wouldn't oil/gas be found in igneous rocks almost exclusively, rather than in sedimentary rocks? Wouldn't Hawai'i, Iceland and other volcanic "hotspots" be the major oil producers then? Instead hydrocarbons are often found in places with the least amount of volcanic and even tectonic activity: Texas, GOM, Middle East, North Sea, and so on. _________________ Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 1986 Location: Australia
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: Re: Abiotic Oil
A search for 'aibiotic' in this forum would have been appropriate before posting as this has been discussed extensively. _________________ It's not a bailout, it's a buy-in" - Nancy Pelosi
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: Re: Abiotic Oil
doodlebug2,
Abiotic hydrocarbon theory was long promoted by the Russians. They were (maybe still are) drilling a very deep well looking for some in far eastern Russia. You might try searching Russian oil geology if you're still interested.
Abstract: The two theories of abiogenic formation of hydrocarbons, the Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins and Thomas Gold's deep gas theory, have been considered in some detail. Whilst the Russian-Ukrainian theorywas portrayed as being scientifically rigorous in contrast to the biogenic theory which was thought to be littered with invalid assumptions, this applies only to the formation of the higher hydrocarbons from methane in the upper mantle. In most other aspects, in particular the influence of the oxidation state of the mantle on the abundance of methane, this rigour is lacking especially when judged against modern criteria as opposed to the level of understanding in the 1950s to 1980s when this theory
was at its peak.
Thomas Gold's theory involves degassing of methane from the mantle and the formation of higher hydrocarbons from methane in the upper layers of the Earth's crust. However, formation of higher hydrocarbons in the upper layers of the Earth's crust occurs only as a result of Fischer-Tropsch-type reactions in the presence of hydrogen gas but is otherwise not possible on thermodynamic grounds. This theory is therefore invalid. Both theories have been overtaken by the increasingly sophisticated understanding of the modes of formation of hydrocarbon deposits in nature.
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 638 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Abiotic Oil
And while I don't believe in it, I use this comparison to explain why it's worthless even if it is true.
Say there is about 30 Trillion barrels of oil that is locked into the earth (that's way, way, way above any estimate that I'm aware of).
Let's say all of this oil has been produced in the last 10 million years through this Abiotic process.
30,000,000,000,000 / 10,000,000 = 3,000,000 barrels produced a year or about 8,200 barrels a day.
Again, so what? We consume about 85,000,000 barrels a day or over 1,000 times what the earth might be producing! _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Abiotic Oil
jlw61 wrote:
30,000,000,000,000 / 10,000,000 = 3,000,000 barrels produced a year or about 8,200 barrels a day.
Again, so what? We consume about 85,000,000 barrels a day or over 1,000 times what the earth might be producing!
I don't believe it either, but saying "so what" is kind of daffy. Look at it from the flip side. How many years of development for fusion, wind power infrastructure, and solar power efficiency research would that much oil, or even a tenth of it, buy us? It's not healthy, I know; but the time do something about it was back when "Good Morning, Starshine" was on the hit parade, and we didn't, so here we are... _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Abiotic Oil
3aidlillahi wrote:
It's mumbo-jumbo. Fact: Oil and gas only occur in sedimentary formations which are where organic materials are/were. Abiotics claim that oil and gas is formed deep inside the Earth. But if that were the case, wouldn't oil/gas be found in igneous rocks almost exclusively, rather than in sedimentary rocks? Wouldn't Hawai'i, Iceland and other volcanic "hotspots" be the major oil producers then? Instead hydrocarbons are often found in places with the least amount of volcanic and even tectonic activity: Texas, GOM, Middle East, North Sea, and so on.
Not exactly true. There are many fields that produce from igneous rocks. However, the source is still considered by the vast majority to be organic in nature.
Look its really really simple. FF that are not biological in origen show the same C12/C13 ratio as any crustal carbon, a ratio of 89:1. FF that come from biological sources are well enriched in C12, often as high as 150:1 compared to C13.
Pick any or every well and test it, if the ratio is more than 89:1 then the source material was biologically accumulated. I have yet to read a convincing argument refuting this fact of geophysics. _________________ Always appeal to a man's enlightened self interest, you can trust him to look out for himself honestly, It's when you appeal to his Honor or the Common Good that he stops paying attention.
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