THE Hydrogen Thread (merged) Part 1

dinopello · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Must have hydrogen by law

Thanks for posting this. I don't really have a sense for how federal government works. If something this stupid was proposed at the local level, many people would show up at the hearing and embarrass the politicians and staff that proposed it.
However, you probably need to know what compromises are struck and what the heck people are thinking. This passed by a vote of 400 to 3. Roscoe Bartlett voted for it. I know he is pretty well informed, so why ? I wonder what reason the 3 that voted against it had. Don't know where they are from but last names are (Flake, Shadegg, Shimkus).
I looked up Shadegg's site and perhaps you might say the people that voted for this stupid legislation are the smart ones

Kingcoal · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Must have hydrogen by law

Washington sure loves their biofuels and hydrogen. I think that it might be because it's easier to tax and control than electric solutions. I think there is this fantasy of being able to just drop a new fuel in place of distillates. I think it's a tax issue. Taxing electricity for electric vehicles would be a nightmare. How would they be able to tell whether you used the electric for your home or for charging your car?
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Dreamtwister · Fission Joined: Feb 06, 2006 Posts: 2196

Bleep · Intermediate Crude Joined: Feb 08, 2006 Posts: 622

In the US auto fuel is taxed to pay for the roads.

Home heating oil is the very same substance as diesel fuel for trucks. It is taxed at the filling station but not (as much?) when sold to homeowners.

Ludi · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Must have hydrogen by law

Legislators propose and vote for these kinds of things so they can say "Look! We're doing something!"

It really doesn't matter if the something is stupid, pointless, and the wrong thing completely.
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Daculling · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Apr 12, 2005 Posts: 1357

Peak_Modernity · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Must have hydrogen by law

gg3 · Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 5:29 am Post subject: Re: Must have hydrogen by law

A "search" scan of the text above showed no mentions of nuclear, fission, or urianium. Sheesh!
Though, the above omission and the comission of conflating hydrogen with biofuels, can be forgiven for the moment because at least we now have a Congress where the majority believes in science. That is not a thing to take for granted in this day & age where a third or more of the electorate believes that the universe is 6,000 years old and Fred Flintstone cavorted with dinosaurs.
Give 'em time. Start writing those letters now. One letter per month to your Representative and both of your Senators, for starters. Teach them the science, and include citations to peer-reviewerd articles if possible. Over time this will start to have an effect. We have two years before the next election.

Know what? They really ought to teach highschool kids to do that.
Civics course: each week, you find a news story to research the following week, and you research your story from the previous week, and on Friday you sit in class and write a letter to your Rep and both Senators. All the work goes on in the classroom, with no homework, to minimize the risk of this being turned into a vehicle for parents to use their kids as mouthpieces.
Get the kids in the habit of doing this regularly. Grade the letters for spelling & grammar and for logical presentation of the idea, regardless of ideology. I could teach a course like that without letting my own biases interfere.

Dreamtwister · Fission Joined: Feb 06, 2006 Posts: 2196

Graeme

PHOENIX CANADA OIL REPORTS GRANT OF U.S. PATENT ON HYDROGEN GAS GENERATION TECHNOLOGY

dissident · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 417

There is no information about the energy saving from the catalytic process they have devised with the help of a "major US research university". So it is hard to gauge how low cost the process really is.

MD

No mention of net energy gains through the process which casts doubt as to whether or not there is an actual energy gain.
"full solar spectrum" as the energy source? Surely they haven't patented electrolysis?
good grief.
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Graeme

The major US research university is Virginia Tech, and the patent is held by Professor Karen Brewer, since 17 October 2006.
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MD

To put it very simply: she has come up with a chemical process that releases hydrogen when exposed to radiant energy. Reading through the repetitive and highly technical (and typical) patent abstract I am left with the impression that this might just be a sustainable source of hydrogen fuel from solar farms.
Of course we are still short quite a few details. (also typical)
This could be just another dud, or it could also be something that has impact.
we will see.
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Bas

It would be great if they found a way to produce H2 without using the old electrolysis and harnassing the power of the sun without expensive solar panels...Well, we'll just have to wait and see I guess...
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