How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Is there a thread in this forum for renters who can't or won't buy their own land, by any chance? I'm one of them and would be interested in learning about things I can do anyway.
I think this would be a good and useful topic. Not everyone can afford to buy property. Not everyone wants to (because they don't want to buy at the top of the market, because they want to be free to move, etc.).
I don't pretend to know for sure how things are going to go down when TSHTF, but if I had to bet, I'd put my money on a slow crash. Which means people might move closer to the cities after the crash. Where the jobs and public transportation are likely to be. Eventually, that may reverse, and people will disperse out into the countryside, but that may take decades. I think staying in (or even moving to) the city is a very reasonable strategy.
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 2663 Location: Vancouver Island
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:28 am Post subject:
I quite liked this thread so I figure I'll bring it back with an update.
Because the water lines into and out of my house are in unknown locations I had to hand dig a new drainage ditch from the corner of the soon to be installed foundation straight out 25 feet to the edge of the drive way and then down the hill about 20 feet. It's 1 foot wide and 2 feet deep with a nice slope to keep the water running. That took about 1.5 months worth of weekends thanks to my yard being a nice mix of rock and clay.
In the end I did not locate the water lines I was worried about but did find 3 drain pipes that where all doing what this new trench is for but where only 1 foot down which won't work since the new foundation is 2 feet down.
So anyways all of that digging took 2 hours to fill with 4" perferated big O and drain rock.
Now I've laid out where the driveway extends to up the hill and I've laid out the shop to hold the water tank. That has changed a little in the planning. It went from being about 20x10 feet to hold 2 3000 gallon or so water tanks to being 24x12 giving me space to put the first water tank in, then relocate all of my water purification equipment into the the shop as well. That will then be sectioned off and the other 12 x12 space will be filled with shelves and benches to allow me to still have a shop.
The initial drawings put the back wall of the shop at 9ft tall with the front being 10 feet. This allows me to drain everything back towards the hill and collect it into a gutter and then run it into the top of that tank for a bit of rainwater collection. I run low on water in the really dry summers so any rain water will help make up for the lack of a second tank. This angle also lets me get a not entirely horrible angle to add some solar panels in the future (once my bank account returns to normal levels). All of the solar system will be housed in the shop and conduit will be run before hand.
I've also tracked down and purchased a new pump for the filtration system, it will use 45 watts/hour to run instead of the current 750 watts/hour pump.
So now all that I have to do is finish following the water line up the hill and dig it all up so that the machine doesn't catch it when it's here. So I hope to have that machine do the driveway ramp and hole for the shop in here within the next 2 weeks. That should be a massive change to the yard and give me something beside digging to do for the next month.
So next update should include a picture of the new shop/water system and then it's on to the old shop becoming part of the living room. 2 months 6 days to go before I'm at my deadline and I lose 2 weekends due to wedding/bachelor party. I should be tired. _________________ shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: [Prep] On the Cheap
Hi, my first post! I've found a good source for cheap (free so far ) water storage. Car wash places usually get their supplies in 20 or 55 gallon drums, check with management, many will let you take them for free. I have picked up one 55 gallon drum and three 20 gallon drums in the past couple of weeks. Some time and effort involved in rinsing out the soap residue, but worth it. My drums were "fresh", so I'm not too worried about toxic stuff, I have passed on drums that have been sitting for some time and who knows what may have been dumped inside. I plan to pick up a few more for biodiesel storage, rainwater harvesting, and backyard aquaponics.
Joined: Nov 24, 2004 Posts: 75 Location: West Lafayette, IN U.S.A.
Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Re: [Prep] On the Cheap
As a college student apartment dweller, I have one small tip for the gardeners: if you live on a top floor with a balcony, you can set extra pots up on the roof. They'll get a ton of sun and increase the area you have to grow things. In the case of a trade situation, I'd recommend herbs, spices and/or medicinals, because these historically have commanded a decent price and you only use a little at a time.
I've seen some people in big cities build these little grid frames that they lay over the top of the house and nestle pots (usually squashes) in the holes. Assuming your roof was strong enough to bear the extra load and you weren't going to kill yourself getting up there, it sounds like a decent use of space to me.
Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: [Prep] On the Cheap
I'm curious about something- I was talking about PO with my mother the other day, and we were debating the possibility of getting a hand pump put in for water, just in case the power were to go out and we were stuck with no running water. I'm in Japan right now, and she's in Southern Maine, so I can't tell you what the water level is like and such, but we currently get water from our own well.
Anyone know what's involved in setting up something like this? I'll be around all summer, and I'd like to at least investigate the hand pump thing (I've been looking at the models they sell over at Lehman's). Also want to get a garden going, but I don't know if I'll be home in time to get everything planted (or where I'll plant it).
I'm getting a little worried- going to the UK for grad school next year, and will be coming back with debt, which won't be at all fun. Of course, if the dollar crashes, I'm allowed to stay and work in the UK for a year, so maybe I'll wind up paying everything off faster than expected. Guess I can only keep reading up on sustainable living and hope for the best at the moment.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6371 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: Re: [Prep] On the Cheap
Now this IS the On The Cheap thread so Lehmans is a dirty word!
I have seen a plan for a pump made from PVC and a foot valve that you basically stroke up and down by grasping the pipe – not for anything over 50 feet I’m sure. (can’t find the link though)
Here is a diagram for a back up pump to sit beside your main pump. This one cost about $700 but the head could be fabricated in a shop and the drop pipe sections made from PVC and rebar. You would need to buy or make a foot valve; they were made from leather in the past. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 8:12 am Post subject: Re: [Prep] On the Cheap
Heh. Yeah, admittedly, this is somewhat off-topic- I should probably have started a separate thread to ask. Though for something like this, I don't necessarily mind spending more if it means it'll hold out and work properly (well, that and it would be the Parental Unit's money, so it would be her call).
Thanks for the diagram- I'll have to research this some more and see what I can find. I need to find out just how deep our well is, anyway. Something tells me it's probably more than fifty feet, but we live right next to a river, so maybe I'm being pessimistic. At least reading doesn't cost anything!
Joined: Jun 26, 2004 Posts: 1189 Location: Madison,Wisconsin
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: Re: [Prep] On the Cheap
Anyone have more on the cheap ideas? I have been haunting my www.freecycle.com page to try and find some steals. I was really angry, I missed by a couple day's a house getting torn down. I could have pulled every bit of material I needed for some raised bed gardens out of that.
I'm curious, I am thinking about getting some of the food/water quality storage containers. Any clues on where to get those? _________________ Azreal60
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 2663 Location: Vancouver Island
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:12 am Post subject: Re: [Prep] On the Cheap
definitely stay trying on freecycle. Just remember to have the adds emailed to you instantly (not batched) and check your email often. I just picked up a greenhouse there because I wasn't able to sleep and was on the PC at 1 am. By the time I got to work the next morning the guy had said it's mine and had a dozen others wanting it.
Another place to check for material is at reuse it centers, Most places have somewhere that takes used construction material and attempts to make a couple of bucks off of it.
For containers try a coke or pepsi bottling place. Some give the 55 gallon food grade containers away. Sometimes they are sold real cheap. For smaller ones I'm not sure.
For another real cheap prep place I'm a fan of goodwill/salvation army/value village type places. Pressure cookers go through there quite cheap reguarly. _________________ shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: Re: [Prep] On the Cheap
azreal60 wrote:
I have been haunting my www.freecycle.com page to try and find some steals.
I think you actually mean www.freecycle.org. freecycle.com appears to be nothing more than a bunch of advertisements and "sponsored links" mocked-up as a website.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:35 am Post subject: Re: [Prep] On the Cheap
Knowledge can be cheap.
Go to the library and get books on allkinds of stuff for a post-peak lifestyle. Get a few binders at Wal-Mart and some non-acid paper and pens and jot down notes as you read. Keep it organized and you'll be surprised at how much good stuff you can learn!
Free at the library is just about as cheap as it gets Cheaper than a college education and more applicable in many instances!
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) water storage. Car wash places usually get their supplies in 20 or 55 gallon drums, check with management, many will let you take them for free. I have picked up one 55 gallon drum and three 20 gallon drums in the past couple of weeks. Some time and effort involved in rinsing out the soap residue, but worth it. My drums were "fresh", so I'm not too worried about toxic stuff, I have passed on drums that have been sitting for some time and who knows what may have been dumped inside. I plan to pick up a few more for biodiesel storage, rainwater harvesting, and backyard aquaponics.
