Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:36 am Post subject: [Diesel 4] Hemp Diesel
Forget for the moment hemp petrol (ethanol) - this still *might* replace our petrol needs (if we eliminate wastage) but its yet to be proven because it only has a marginal energy return
Hemp diesel is different - the oil from hemp seeds will work with little or no modification in a standard diesel engine. I know someone who runs their camper van on chip fat!
Check out www.runyourvehicleonchipfat.com
I lifted the article below from FuelandFibre.com so I can't confirm its accuracy, but lets assume for the moment they are correct
Since most lorries and tankers run on diesel this means hemp can help keep some essential transport systems running, plus any diesel car
Please can someone prove/disprove this, and also work out how much land we would need to set aside to meaningfully impact our diesel fuel prices in the short term and provide adequate biodiesel in the long term
So far hemp is the only alternative fuel source that can be brought online fairly quickly and without massive new technology
Forgot the article!
>
Grown for oilseed, Canadian grower's yields average 1 tonne/hectare, or about 400 lbs. per acre. Cannabis seed contains about 28% oil (112 lbs.), or about 15 gallons per acre. Production costs using these figures would be about $35 per gallon. Some varieties are reported to yield as much as 38% oil, and a record 2,000 lbs. per acre was recorded in 1999. At that rate, 760 lbs.of oil per acre would result in about 100 gallons of oil, with production costs totaling about $5.20 gallon. Sales of the remaining stalk material at $72 per ton will provide another source of income. It is estimated that a crop grown for both seed and fiber will produce about 3 tons of stalk, which is selling for about $72 per ton, resulting in a $216 per acre credit. This will reduce the cost of the oil to about $3 per gallon. Further reductions will accrue as the agronomic knowledge base is enlarged, and economies of scale are realized, lowering production costs while improving yields.
This oil could be used as-is in modified diesel engines, or be converted to biodiesel using a relatively simple, automated process. Several systems are under development worldwide designed to produce biodiesel on a small scale, such as on farms using "homegrown" oil crops.
Joined: May 23, 2004 Posts: 276 Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 8:38 am Post subject:
Why is it that whenever the h word is raised, people like me automatically roll their eyes and think "it'll probably waffle on about something that's too good to be true, so it's not worth reading"? _________________ The purpose of human life revolves around an endless need to extract ever increasing amounts of carbon out of the ground and then release it into the atmosphere.
Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 984 Location: Tulsa, Ok
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:03 pm Post subject: Martin
Prove to me that you’re right! Make sure you calculate the required number of acres to provide fuel for a nation of consumers. Until you prove that the idea will work. There is no need to prove it will not.
Understand this too. Showing that it is possible to run a single vehicle off hemp oils or peanut oils or waste oils from deep fryers is different than showing an entire economy or even a good part of an economy can be run off it.
Until you crunch the numbers to FULLY back up your idea. You haven't proved it.
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:47 pm Post subject: Hemp Oil
Having read you posts. I just thought I'd point out that you don't seem to have included the costs of growing the hemp in the first place or any other of the associated costs.
I have read that 95% of current furtilisers utilise oil in their production. Intensive farming methods make them essential to maintain crop yields. Then there is the physical energy cost associated with intensive agro production; the ploughing, sowing, spraying with pesticides and harvesting. Lastly is the energy cost of extracting the oil and transporting it to the pumps.
I have read that for other domesticated cereal crops the calorie ratio is something like 10:1. For every food calorie producted it took ten petro calories to produce. (The ratio is worse for animal production) I seriously dought that hemp can reverse that ratio, never mind the area of land that would need to be set aside for this.
See the link below for the best explanation I've read about agricultural energy production and oil comsumption.
Hemp is supposed to be pretty light on fertilizer and pesticide use.
The day Monsato patents a 0% (vs. almost zero) THC hemp, and gives it a new name like "Patriot Bio-Weed"...that will be the day industrial hemp will be legalized. _________________ Eickhorn Daggers!
www.pistolanddagger.com
Thats more like it!
Thanks guys
You see, I'm still trying to work out exactly how much hemp could help us myself and need the criticisms to do this!
>Prove to me that you're right! Make sure you calculate the required number of acres to provide fuel for a nation of consumers. Until you prove that the idea will work. There is no need to prove it will not.
>Understand this too. Showing that it is possible to run a single vehicle off hemp oils or peanut oils or waste oils from deep fryers is different than showing an entire economy or even a good part of an economy can be run off it.
>Until you crunch the numbers to FULLY back up your idea. You haven't proved it.
This is what I hope to do, but it could take some time, as yet I haven't found anywhere on the net you can get a condensed authenticated overview of what biomass (hemp) could provide
>Perhaps you could start proving your point by providing some reviewed research article links to back up your figures. List the modern strains and their required inputs. Maybe compare hemp to other sources of seed oil considering the huge amount of union (read prison guards) and political will arrayed against.
I will try and build up a list of links and put them on my website
As far as I can tell hemp is the best all round biomass plant
Its fast growing, isn't too fussy about soil or weather, doesn't need drowing in pestisides or herbicides
The political will against it you mentioned is only true in the US, in Europe there is a small but growing (and legal!) industrial hemp industry
>Tell about the variety of uses hemp was put to in the past
Paper, food, clothing, oil for lamps (hemp used to be the main lighting oil till the 1800's)
> Having read you posts. I just thought I'd point out that you don't seem to have included the costs of growing the hemp in the first place or any other of the associated costs.
True, that needs to be worked out
But as far as I can tell the market is there, and hemp is no different from growing any other crop
I'm not sure growing costs are that important, processing costs and energy return on investment is the key question
>I have read that 95% of current furtilisers utilise oil in their production. Intensive farming methods make them essential to maintain crop yields. Then there is the physical energy cost associated with intensive agro production; the ploughing, sowing, spraying with pesticides and harvesting. Lastly is the energy cost of extracting the oil and transporting it to the pumps.
I have also heard about the oil in fertilisers, I'm not sure if this includes both pesticides (pest control) and herbisides (fertiliser)
What I do know about hemp is that its a hardy plant, unlike for example Cotton
It doesn't really need pesticides but it does need fertiliser
What I will try and do is contrast pest/herb requirements for hemp, then cotton and corn
>I have read that for other domesticated cereal crops the calorie ratio is something like 10:1. For every food calorie producted it took ten petro calories to produce. (The ratio is worse for animal production) I seriously dought that hemp can reverse that ratio, never mind the area of land that would need to be set aside for this.
Thats the key question!
Is biomass (hemp) an energy sink, by default the answer is a definite no
We could grow it and harvest it the old way using manual labour
Of course this would only support small, local populations (the die off scenario)
The question is, is hemp enough of an energy source to inject a little bit of mechanisation/raw materials and still keep it an energy source?
If so, we can farm it on a big scale and get food, materials and fuel from it without consuming fossil fuels
Thats the million dollar question and determines everything about how useful hemp could be
Its what I'm trying to find out!
Shouldn't everyone?
Seriously,its the same problem we have now - the peaking and declining of a fuel source.
In this case, the amount of hemp we would be able to produce would be limited by arable land or any number of factors.
Not that it couldn't help soften the fall . . . but I think hemp has more value as a food crop than as use for fuel. It is extremely nutritionally dense, relatively easy to grow, very hearty crop. Ideal for a situation in which food production is declining.
BTW, I just had some hemp oil with my tuna sandwich. (Buy it at the health food store)
Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 434 Location: Berkeley CA
Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:04 pm Post subject:
The hemp plant have less cellulose than other plants, less carbohydrates means lower alochol yields. Your better off to ferment other plants. Hemp oil made from seeds shouldn't be used as a fuel, it should be comsumed as a food diet. Hemp is better off as a food crop, I heard that even after 20 years of growing hemp on a plot of land, there are no signs of the soil nutrients being exhausted.
done some more research since the first post
'twas a little optimistic I admit!
Hemp oil could never be used to maintain our current economic system
But in a less energy intensive world it could keep basic things running
I worked out if you grew it in the UK on a large, but not massive scale you could get a million barrels or two - per year!
In the US maybe you could make that one hunder
Thats around 1/70th the oil America uses a year
But remember we turn a lot of oil into plastic and other things
The rest of the hemp plant can be used to make plastic from the cellulose, as well as fabric and paper
With conservation hemp oil could in theory run a simpler, less wasteful economy
Or being less ambitious....
Its possible we could run our farms on locally grown hemp, so we in effect get free farming
The farmer then sells his food as well as the rest of the hemp plant for production
Any farmers here?
If so I will dig out the figures and see how large a field would be needed to be set aside for hemp!
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
