Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Rainwater Collection
Can it really be that show heads with smaller holes cost more to manufacture than the ones you find in most US homes?
I am forever stupefied that people need to PAY more to try to save. A good gov. should encourage this sort of thing with levers that it has to its disposal. _________________ Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire
"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1058 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Rainwater Collection
skyemoor wrote:
I've been looking at rainwater capture for our large garden and establishing 24 fruit and nut trees. We have a friend who runs a vineyard who says he will give us all the old wine barrels we want, but he's concerned that the leaching of old wine residue back into the rainwater will render it unusable.
1. Is the use of old wine barrels discouraged because of old wine residue 'ruining' the water for irrigation purposes?
2. If not, is the hassle of hooking up 6+ barrels worth it vs. buying a 500+ gallon tank?
If the answer to 1. is 'no', I might even have a 'hybrid' system, where I buy a 500 gallon tank for one section of the yard where the garden and most trees will be, and they put in a couple of wine barrels for the other side of the house where the rest of the trees will be.
We also have sheep, and I'd like to find out if I can capture rainwater for them off the barn roof into wine barrels.
There are many ways of collecting and storing rainwater, from oil-based plastics such as HDPE and fibreglass to stone and cement to wood with plastic liners.
Wine barrels are just fine for garden and tree irrigation. After the first rainfall flush of the wine barrels, they will be good-to-go for your garden and trees. Remember water (cloud juice) is in it's purest state (softness) before it hits the ground, (assuming it's not falling through acid and heavy particulate effluents from fossil-fuel burning.) Rainwater will wash away any residual alcohol from the barrels quite readily.
Stone and cement cisterns will leach more inorganics into rainwater than plastic or wood cisterns, ie. metals, including heavy metals.
Rainwater is the universal solvent.
Plastics leach organics. My past experience as a chemist for Continental Water Systems, a former Olin company, which I believe is now owned by U.S. Filter, taught me that polypropylene leaches the fewest organics into very pure water. Much less than wood of course.
My Rainwater Collection Update:
My house has been supplied with rainwater 40 weeks out of the last 43. And this area of Texas still has about a 5-inch rainfall deficit this year.
I currently have about 3000 gallons stored.
I also learned that Germany is way, way ahead of America when it comes to incorporating rainwater collection with building design.
Example: A Volkswagen factory uses rainwater in the construction of the cars. All the employee showers are rainwater-supplied. Many schools and colleges in Germany use rainwater for all of their shower facilities.
Can any German PO.com readers confirm this?
I learned this at the RE Roundup in Fredericksburg, TX last month. The talk was titled "Rainwater Collection-The German Model." See www.theroundup.org
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1058 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:59 pm Post subject: Re: Rainwater Collection
My Rainwater Collection Update:
Well, Central Texas, according to Austin stats, now has over a 9 inch rain deficit or about one-third less rainfall than normal for the year. In spite of this, the rainwater system has provided all the household water for 49 out of the last 52 weeks, and there's still about 3,000 gals in the tanks at this time, and a little rain is forecast this week.
If this rainwater system keeps performing as well as it has in spite of a drought, I think it is time to quit the local water utility.
I can always get re-connected to the local water utility if I need to.
Joined: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 1159 Location: western Wisconsin
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:19 pm Post subject: Re: Rainwater Collection
For rainwater storage, if you are in an area where dairy farming is common, see if you can get the bulk tanks that milk is stored in before being picked up at the farm. I was given a 500 gallon tank-the refrigeration system had failed, and they replaced the tank with a much larger one to handle their increased milk production. The tanks are often available at reasonable prices at farm auctions, but are large and bulky. I have friends that incorporated about 2000 gallons (if I remember correctly) in a house that they built. I think that their current house uses a buried tank from a milk truck for water storage. They got it at a salvage yard, and hired a backhoe to bury the stainless steel tank. They use a bulk tank as a filter when the water comes off the roof, before it goes to the buried tank. A 12 volt pump pumps water to the house.
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 368 Location: Mississippi Delta
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Rainwater Collection
The rainwater collection system described in the opening post seems unnecessarily complicated to me. If the primary use for the water is, as stated, for irrigation, why the need for such extensive treatment? Are you really treating irrigation water with multiple filtrations and UV? Why?
I suspect you would have been better off to use the water directly for irrigation and just get bottled water delivered.
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1058 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Rainwater Collection
green_achers wrote:
The rainwater collection system described in the opening post seems unnecessarily complicated to me. If the primary use for the water is, as stated, for irrigation, why the need for such extensive treatment? Are you really treating irrigation water with multiple filtrations and UV? Why?
I suspect you would have been better off to use the water directly for irrigation and just get bottled water delivered.
Respectfully, you misunderstood the original post apparently.
Adding the ballast pump, filters, and UV light was to ensure the rainwater was potable so I could supply the house with rainwater. I still use the rainwater for irrigation, but the water is not filtered or irradiated. (I installed outdoor spigots and use gravity flow for irrigating.)
When I first installed the cisterns, all the water was used for irrigation and was not filtered, etc, but during the non-growing season, the tanks filled up and just sat there. So I wanted to make use of the collected water year-round. This required adding the pump and filters.
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 368 Location: Mississippi Delta
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Rainwater Collection
Quote:
I hope that clarifies things.
Yes, thanks. I guess that I'm a little overwhelmed at the cost of treating just the household water part. Would it be possible to treat and store a smaller amount for drinking and use the untreated water for flushing toilets, etc?
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 2680 Location: Vancouver Island
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:55 am Post subject: Re: Rainwater Collection
Yes just run two water systems within the house. Thats probably more expensive then setting up the filtration system in the first place though.
my system filters spring water but it would handle rainwater exactly the same. I may add rainwater collection in the future but last year I had no issues with the supply from the spring.
I bring the water in and place it in a 3000 gallon tank. The inlet is controlled by a float valve.
From there it's directly connected to a 300 gallon tank via a T. Both tanks maintain the same water level.
the 300 gallon tank has a small pump that circulates water out of the bottom into the middle of the tank. As the water goes through this loop ozone from an ozone generator is added and it bubbles to the top of the tank.
Water exist the 300 gallon tank and goes into a pressure pump via gravity and from there goes through a charcoal filter before going into the house.
the inlet to the 3000 gallon tank has a manifold before it that spits the incoming water letting me bypass the filtration system running the house directly off of the spring water which is pressurized by gravity. I also split it to run two taps outside for watering the lawn without bothering to filter it.
The system uses about 75 watts of power continuously not including the pressure pump which is a 1 hp model. It's possible that I could power this off of solar and or wind power to make it truely grid independant.
Brand new my system would be worth about $7,000 -$10,000. A lot of money but city water isn't available here. having almost endless fresh water that I know is safe because my system keeps it that way is entirely worth it. _________________ shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
Time for an update.
The drought in central Texas continues, but we did get about 0.3 inches (0.76 cm) of rain today.
That equates to about 300 gallons with my current house rainshadow.
We've received less than 2 inches of rain in the last 4 months.
I had to put 500 gallons of city water into one of the cisterns to supply the house with water. I guess I could have pumped water from the small above-ground pool, (approx 3500 gallons), but decided against that. I'm not that desperate yet, lol.
So for the future, it looks like it's time to gutter up the carport and the storage shed and perhaps extend the roof collection area over the porch and decks to increase my total rainshadow.
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1058 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject:
Wow! Has it been over a year since my last update on this thread?
Currently four of the 1550 gal tanks are overflowing with all the recent rains. The fifth 1550 gal tank collecting off the carport (and not connected to the other tanks) has about 700-750 gallons. I understand that Austin's rainfall total for the month of March set a new record. (An example of extreme weather conditions imo.)
I decided not to quit the local city water service yet. Having access to the mains water is still a good back up, (while it's available.) I can currently afford the "standby" fee.
I wanted to bump this thread so newbies have a chance to browse through it. _________________ About my avatar: Guess.
Joined: Nov 18, 2004 Posts: 1058 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: [Water] Rainwater Collection
Thanks, TommyJefferson.
I appreciated some of the tips and suggestions others made in this thread too, such as not running the UV lamp 24/7.
Richard Heinichen at http://www.rainwatercollection.com has posted some QuickTime videos that offer more details regarding collecting rainwater, and his book, Rainwater Collection For the Mechanically Challenged is excellent.
Matt Savinar should contact Richard and see if he can sell some more of Richard's books! lol _________________ About my avatar: Guess.
Last edited by PeakOiler on Sat May 19, 2007 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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