How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:06 am Post subject: Man's best friend
In the event of TSHTF, I consider that having a dog would be very useful indeed.
After all, if times got really bad you'll need every friend you can get. If they happen to have big, sharp teeth and can run faster than a sprinter, then you're laughing!
They are also useful for meat if you really are in trouble, food wise.
Just don't get a soppy Labrador. I've got one. He's great at scaring people with his bark but when push comes to shove he just doesn't know what bite means! He once confronted a stranger on our property, barked at him like a loon for a couple of minutes and then rolled over to have his belly tickled!! I think he gave up because he couldn't think of what else to do!!
On the plus side, a gun dog would be useful for retrieving prey. You could also get a terrier to hunt rabbits etc.
And if things never meltdown, what harm can it do to own dogs anyway? They're great pets if you have the time and space for them. Big commitment for working people though. _________________ Burning the midnight oil, whilst I still can.
Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 1969 Location: Democratic People's Republic of Washington
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:12 am Post subject:
How are you going to feed the animal, when you can barely feed yourself, and any food you do find will immediately go into your stomach whether safe to eat or not? I would not consider it humane to force a domesticated animal to eat what it catches or starve. Plus, in that situation, you would be in competition for food with the dog. In a starvation situation, you will be facing plenty of competition from other humans, so I do not think it would be very wise to introduce another potential competitor. _________________ Here Lies the United States Of America.
Joined: May 16, 2004 Posts: 162 Location: Rural, Indiana.
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:12 am Post subject:
Right now there are two yellow-labs playing like maniacs behind me. Yes, they are great companions, but true they would probably lick an intruder to death before they bit anyone. But, besides that I wouldn't trade my two labs for any other dog. Not sure I could ever bring myself to make one my dinner....no matter how badly I was starving. But, then if I was starving, they probably will be too. Depressing thought.
Joined: May 16, 2004 Posts: 162 Location: Rural, Indiana.
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:14 am Post subject:
Oh, and k.semlar. I had thought about that. If things get as bad as you say they will, I would euthanize my pet before I would let it starve or fend for itself outside. No matter how hard it would be to do, it would be better then watching him suffer and better then worrying about him out in the wild on his own.
Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 1969 Location: Democratic People's Republic of Washington
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:26 am Post subject:
I don't think I could shoot my own dog. I would not want anyone else to either, because I would want to shoot them. If the animal was gassed at the vet, I would be able to deal with it easier, but it would still be very hard. One thing is that I would never eat a former pet. I would sooner become maggot food than eat my own dog. That is just sadistic. _________________ Here Lies the United States Of America.
No, I could never eat my pet either. I think I would shoot myself first then do that.....
Yeah JR, Im afraid you and many others feel the same way. Which leads to people abandoning their pets. Abandoned dogs will group up in feral packs and become man's most serious animal threat. Feral dogs have no fear of humans, so keep yer .45 handy.
The right kind of dog would be worth the food burden though. A good guard breed provides exceptional security and warmth on cold nights. _________________ "The future power is manpower"
Anybody who would let themselves starve before they eat their own dog is clearly not thinking about survival. In the modern world, at present there's no reason to treat animals like that. But if it was a case of him or me, he'd lose everytime. Think about it, if you let the dog live whilst you're starving then he'd be going hungry too and that's not fair on him and it's wasting a good resource that you can use.
That's when the faithful friend and pet becomes food - in those circumstances he's dead anyway.
I think my point was, dogs are excellent defensive tools, are able to help you hunt and retrieve food (that's what many breeds were selected for) and when all else fails - provide a source of food for yourself.
I'm pretty sure there's an indigenous tribe of people who have used this technique with great success.
Can't remember their name though. Anybody help with that one?
Right now they make great pets (I love my doggie to death!), but in a less certain future, one has to be more pragmatic. Sorry if that sounds evil to you other dog lovers out there.
[p.s. for those of a politcally correct nature, I use "he" because my dog is a he] _________________ Burning the midnight oil, whilst I still can.
Joined: May 16, 2004 Posts: 162 Location: Rural, Indiana.
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 6:28 am Post subject:
I am truly hoping that my canine companions live a full life before TSHTF with peak oil. Labs live an average of 10 years which means I have 9 years with which I hope they will be with me. After learning about Peakoil I do not plan on having any more pets in my life after they are gone.
If things get bad while they are still with me, I could never turn them lose to be feral dogs on the street. I have a gun and will put them down myself rather then turn them lose in the wild. It may sound very mean of me, but that is how I feel. I love my dogs, I love them enough to do this rather then push them out the door to fend for themselves. If this happens, tho, I may find myself turning the gun on myself after my dogs.
Wow, I have to go to work now. Hard way to start a day.
Lock yourself into a room with your dog. Bring enough water, but no food.
Depending on the breed, (yours' & the dog's), after a few days you will notice a marked change in your pet's attitude. (& your's too)
Just like the creepy old woman in Minority Report says, "When the chips are down every living creature is interested in one thing, and one thing only... it's own survival."
Read Gerald's Game?
And for those who have vacationed or live in certain places in the world - How do you know you have not already eaten Fido fajitas? _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Just like the creepy old woman in Minority Report says, "When the chips are down every living creature is interested in one thing, and one thing only... it's own survival."
Exactly. I say make use of the dog in hunting and defence for as long as you can. Then if you're out of luck and out of food, finish poor Rover off before he finishes off you. Let's face it, when you're starving hunrgy and you have a large dog stew potentially available are you really going to let yourself go hungry?
Aaron wrote:
And for those who have vacationed or live in certain places in the world - How do you know you have not already eaten Fido fajitas?
I thought I was bringing the tone down! _________________ Burning the midnight oil, whilst I still can.
Another small point. If you're not a vegetarian or vegan and yet you would rather die than eat your dog, then you really ought to examine your value set. Sheep are quite cute and smarter than they get credit for. Pigs are very smart and make great pets. Cows aren't too bad when you "get to know them"!!
For now, enjoy your canine buddy as friends and let's hope things never got as bad as mass "doggiecide". _________________ Burning the midnight oil, whilst I still can.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6371 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:54 pm Post subject:
Properly trained, a dog can be a lifesaver. My German Shepard, even with a blown out knee, runs out barking like she’s rabid when the motion-activated alarm goes off at my workshop. That added time could be the difference between being caught off guard and being prepared for hungry visitors.
I’m talking about a working dog – not Fi Fi, a heeler or some other breed that hasn’t been ruined by the show ring.
As far as feeding a dog, if you don’t think you can eat dog, then you certainly won’t be eating chicken guts, moldy bread or spoiled meat – but he will. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Apr 17, 2004 Posts: 984 Location: Tulsa, Ok
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:20 pm Post subject: wow
I have 3 large dogs. In my neighborood. I had a four wheeler, 2 wed eaters, a tool box with assorted tools, and a chain saw stolen. Then my German shepard because 1 year old. I haven't had a thing stolen sense.
I also hav a rotweiler, and a black lab.
The lab it to friendly to guard much really. The Shepard and the rot make it clear to all that they need stay away.
I would hate to eat my dog but actually talked with my brother about it the other day. The lab would go first. She doesn't guard well. The the Shepard. I hate to say this. He is the oldest and I do love him but human life first.
I had the rot given to me. She is loyal, friendly to family. Hates any strangers.
The shepard and rot would bite I think. Never had that tested out.
I actually like the analagy. Would you eat your cow? What about that pet pig? Rabbits? When it comes down to it.
Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:22 pm Post subject: Dog Stew Dreams
Hey remember Fido is no dumb animal and once you get to the point where you need to eat him he's gonna know- INSTANTLY- what you have planned. Better do it long before you are weakened or crazed from malnutrition or he's likely to slip away only to return to eat you. lol.
Remember that Jack London story "To Build a Fire"- the dog got away.
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