Joined: Jan 02, 2008 Posts: 403 Location: out dispatching ronan...
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:04 am Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
Goodmaj.
'Muck' is pretty normal as far as I know. I'm not expert though. Others might know. Maybe you could describe it in more detail. It's probably just pop, but I wouldn't worry too much about contamination in that case. I'm not sure washing them is a good idea though... I recall something about making the shells less protective that way...
--------
Update on the crazy coop project...
Todays effort. From the picture below, it appears the nests rests on the ground, but when it's made up it will not. I'm going to mount this entire structure of tall stumps about a meter above ground. So the nests will be well elevated.
The support beams seen on the bottom will also be cut out, so we'll effectively be able to walk inside it. But we'll collect the eggs from the sides. I'll probably create a simple 'tray' that will rest beneath all this to collect droppings for the fruit trees.
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1542 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
patience wrote:
I'd love to let chickens free range in the back yard, but we have too many coyotes in the area. I may try the chicken tractor idea. Don't understand why that never happened around here. This forum is the first I'd heard of it! Thanks!
We have both coyotes and wolves in our area but they are not a problem for us. We've got two good sized dogs with a third (Mastiff-Great Dane cross) on the way. They keep the deer and coyotes away and the wolves are not interested or more likely too cautious to come in close. The dogs are trained to leave the chickens alone, though the German Shepard does love to herd them at times. The coop is right next to the house and the chicken yard is fenced.
We did have problems a few months ago with what we believe was a raccoon getting into the coop. One of the roosters fought off the creature and was quite bloodied. He later died and became dog food. To prevent further problems I closed the coop in the evening. Since then there have been no problems with predators. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5143 Location: Oklahoma
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
Hagakure_Leofman wrote:
I'm not sure washing them is a good idea though... I recall something about making the shells less protective that way...
The shells have a coating on them that helps prevent pathogens from entering the egg. When you wash the eggs, it removes this coating, and the egg can spoil faster.
We throw the really dirty eggs in the compost pile, and the marginal ones we wash just before we use them. With clean bedding our eggs are mostly nice and clean, except just after a heavy rain when the hens get muddy and/or wet. There's always the occasional poopy egg, even when the bedding is fresh. _________________ "Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1542 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
Shannymara wrote:
Hagakure_Leofman wrote:
I'm not sure washing them is a good idea though... I recall something about making the shells less protective that way...
The shells have a coating on them that helps prevent pathogens from entering the egg. When you wash the eggs, it removes this coating, and the egg can spoil faster.
We throw the really dirty eggs in the compost pile, and the marginal ones we wash just before we use them. With clean bedding our eggs are mostly nice and clean, except just after a heavy rain when the hens get muddy and/or wet. There's always the occasional poopy egg, even when the bedding is fresh.
Our chickens keep their nests very clean and I change out their straw, however we still wash the eggs. They are most often clean but sometimes there will be a little poo streak. I think this may be from the girls not practicing proper hygiene. I soak the eggs in water awhile and then wash them using a soft bristle brush and a mild soap. I don't worry about shelf life of the eggs. If they are older than a week, they're too old in my opinion and go to the dogs. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Last edited by DomusAlbion on Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12063 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
DomusAlbion, with the new coop, what are your provisions for protecting the chickens from raccoons? Raccoons have always been our worst predators, and have devastated our flocks in the past. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Nov 16, 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Rural Western Idaho
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
DomusAlbionan wrote:
wash them using a soft bristle brush and a mild soap. I don't worry about shelf life of the eggs. If they are older than a week, they're too old in my opinion and go to the dogs.
Same here - except I know the shelf life on a refrigerated egg is longer than a week. In fact I think it wasn't until 2000 that the FDA even required that eggs for sale be refrigerated.
Doesn't matter much, though -- because the market for fresh, free range chicken eggs is more than we can keep up with, which is why we are adding to our flock.
BTW, Domus -- I posted some questions to you on this thread a few days back ... still awaiting your answers, since you seem to be a guy who knows what's what with a lot of this stuff.
Thanks
Lumpy _________________ Dean Karnazes : "Run when you can, walk when you have to, crawl if you must; just never give up." --- Jackie Joyner-Kersee: "It is better to look forward & prepare, than to look back & regret."
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1542 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
Ludi wrote:
DomusAlbion, with the new coop, what are your provisions for protecting the chickens from raccoons? Raccoons have always been our worst predators, and have devastated our flocks in the past.
The floor of our coop is hardware wire with straw on top of that. I have an old door from the farm house as a walk-in door for me. I cut a chicken door at the bottom of the human door and have a ramp hinged at the bottom of that door. I just lift the draw bridge, so to speak, and the chickens are secure within their castle. Also I have roosts made of 2x4s built jutting out of the high wall of the coop. They all crowd together on these two roosts where they are quite safe.
I need to take some pictures of the coop and post them here. I'll try to do that today. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5143 Location: Oklahoma
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
Lumpy wrote:
...I know the shelf life on a refrigerated egg is longer than a week.
We occasionally have an egg backup when I get lazy about distributing the eggs. I only refrigerate them once in a while. They easily last over a month sitting in cartons on the counter, and these are unfertilized. If I am not sure whether an egg is spoiled, I use the float test. Put the egg in a glass or bowl of cold water. If it floats, it's too old. If it stands on end in the bottom, it's marginal. The air space in the egg expands as they age. Even when discarding the floaters, I've yet to break one and find it stinky, and nobody has gotten sick from our eggs yet. _________________ "Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3454 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
Lumpy wrote:
DomusAlbionan wrote:
wash them using a soft bristle brush and a mild soap. I don't worry about shelf life of the eggs. If they are older than a week, they're too old in my opinion and go to the dogs.
Same here - except I know the shelf life on a refrigerated egg is longer than a week. In fact I think it wasn't until 2000 that the FDA even required that eggs for sale be refrigerated.
Doesn't matter much, though -- because the market for fresh, free range chicken eggs is more than we can keep up with, which is why we are adding to our flock.
BTW, Domus -- I posted some questions to you on this thread a few days back ... still awaiting your answers, since you seem to be a guy who knows what's what with a lot of this stuff.
Thanks
Lumpy
IMO that is a silly waste of eggs. An egg freshly laid and put in an egg crate without washing and without refridgeration will be garunteed good for 21 days at room temperature.
Think about it, in the wild a hen will lay 15-20 eggs at a rate of one per day before she comits to setting on them to incubate them. Chicken eggs have to be incubated for a minimum of 21 and maximum of 23 days to hatch.
Fresh eggs are in a state of biogenic stasis waiting for incubation to start. The natural mucus coating from the oviduct prevents bacteria from entering the pores on the egg and making it spoil. When you wash it off you start the spoiling process, or at least provide the opertunity for the process to start. _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1542 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
Lumpy wrote:
DomusAlbion wrote:
We don't restrict their movement in any way. They roam the entire property and get most of their food from the land. They love to scratch through the horse droppings out in pasture. They find lots of bugs to eat and a great variety of vegetable matter. This is in addition to their layer feed and scratch grains.
I've been selling eggs and the girls are now making a profit. This money pays for their feed and bought the new set of chicks. This spring and summer I'll be selling eggs at the farmer's market in Moscow.
I would think with the additions to your flock, you guys are going to have to clean out the coop at least every two months!
Three questions for you:
1. To whom are you selling your eggs now if the farmers' market is not up and running for the year yet?
2. How long are you planning to leave your new chicks in the "chick (nursery) coop" before introducing them to the "general population?"
3. I have noticed in the stores that they advertised on some egg cartons that they come from chickens that are fed "100% vegetarian -- and are free range". To me that is a contradiction in terms, since free range chickens will eat bugs like crazy. Good for them, and it keeps the egg shells solid with calcium. But it definately makes the chickens not "100% vegetarian." No free range chicken could be. Please advise your thoughts on this.
Thanks,
Lumpy
I sell to our neighbors and to people at the various offices where my wife has patients. My wife made up a wonderful flyer and I went around to each neighbor and left the flyer and a half dozen eggs. I sell our eggs cheap to this set of customers ($2 per dozen), as these are people we value. Even at the Farmer's market I will sell the eggs for less than the market value. Some places charge as much as $6 for the type of egg we produce, I’ll charge half that. As I said earlier the hens are already creating a profit above the amount of money it takes to care for them. I'm more interested in establishing a local egg business and a service than making money. This is part of our relocalization philosophy.
The new chicks will remain separated from the flock for 6 weeks. Then I'll band each one and release them to the gen pop after I band them. That way I can keep an eye on the situation and make sure there is not too much bullying going on. One thing I did observe with an earlier release of some chicks we incubated from eggs is that the hens egg production dropped slightly for awhile. This may happen again until the new chicks are excepted into the flock.
I want our chickens to get the greatest variety of food possible. They know what they want and what they need and I believe it is reflected in their general good health and the taste of their eggs. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1542 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
OK. Here are some pictures of our Chicken Condominium. The building is 12ft by 8ft; 8ft tall in the front and 4ft in the back. It sits up off the ground about 6 inches.
This is the entrance. Garbage cans hold feed:
Here's a shot with the ramp being used by some residents:
This is the floor just inside the door. Hardware cloth with boards for me to step on:
This is the same area like with straw added:
This is one of the laying towers. There are two levels with three nests per level. The hens can walk behind the nest area. The front is hinged so I can pull it open to retrieve eggs.
This is the same area with the access door open. Here are two of the girls at work:
Note that the nest is a plastic box. This makes it easy to lift out the box for cleaning.
This is a shot down the length of the coop. The door is to my left. Note the water and feeder with a protective poo roof. The roosts are directly above this area:
The roosts. The lower of the two is 4 feet above the floor:
You can just see the light at the top of the picture. This is a heat lamp that is on a timer. It comes on at 5am till 8am and again at 5pm until 8pm. It extends their hours of light which helps them maintain their laying schedule.
And a shot with the coop in use and the dreaded chicken catcher:
A few outdoor shots follow:
Chicken with ancient apple tree and Chicken herding:
_________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Joined: Nov 16, 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Rural Western Idaho
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
Hagakure_Leofman wrote:
good photos DomusAlbion. I love the 'dreaded chicken catcher'! Good idea. I'll have to make myself one of those.
Yeah, that was pretty cool looking -- but I don't think you'll have to make one. Looks like a fishing net to me.
I guess Domus could tell us, though, for sure.
Lumpy _________________ Dean Karnazes : "Run when you can, walk when you have to, crawl if you must; just never give up." --- Jackie Joyner-Kersee: "It is better to look forward & prepare, than to look back & regret."
Joined: Jan 02, 2008 Posts: 403 Location: out dispatching ronan...
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: [Food] Production - Poultry (was Backyard Chickens)
Update on the chicken coop construction...
I've finally mounted the coop on it's stumps! This project has been on the end of a long list of more important things, like finishing my house reno. So I've finally position the coop at it's final resting place. It's mounted about 1 meter off the ground on stumps, which I'll wrap with a timber each. The whole thing will have weatherboards over it and a corrugated iron roof. Then I'll build a little ladder for them to climb up the the coops. The red gum posts that you can see here are about 2.5 meters above the ground, so the entire coop is enclosed in chicken wire.
For an idea of scale, it's possible for me to walk under the ceiling of this. The two timber cross beams will be cut off shortly, so access to the roost enclosures is as simple as just walking in.
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And here I thought we were unique 
. We have a dreaded chicken catcher too. Yep, it's a fishing net.
