Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: America "cleared" by Italy in shooting
What did I tell you. Its funny, after seeing this, to go back and read about all the "It wasnt an accident" crap.
About 85% of the people on this forum simply hate America to hate America, like its the in thing to do. Guess what folks? You were, as usual, wrong.
Maybe in the future you'll quit being blinded by your hatred and think with your head......
Maybe
ROME — Italian investigators have concluded that stress, inexperience and fatigue among U.S. soldiers played a role in the shooting death of an Italian agent in Baghdad, according to a report released Monday.
The probe found no evidence that the March 4 killing of intelligence agent Nicola Calipari was deliberate. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
Joined: Aug 18, 2004 Posts: 694 Location: SF Bay Area, Calif
Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:07 pm Post subject:
More info about the Italian report:
ny times wrote:
ROME, May 2 - Italy on Monday issued a strongly worded rebuttal to an American report clearing United States soldiers of responsibility for the shooting death of an Italian intelligence agent at a roadblock in Iraq, saying "inexperience and stress" on the part of the soldiers were major reasons for the agent's death.
....
The 52-page Italian report offers an exhaustive rebuttal to the American version of events, released on Saturday. Specifically, the Italian report said that an American roadblock on the road to the Baghdad airport had not been clearly visible; that the driver of the car carrying the agent had not been speeding; and that the removal of the cars involved had made it impossible to reconstruct exactly what had happened.
The report said that the car carrying the agent, Nicola Calipari, a ranking official in Italian secret services, had not been an intentional target but that "some level of inexperience and stress could have led soldiers to reactions that were instinctive and not well controlled."
Italy Rebuts U.S. Report That Cleared G.I.'s in Killing
There are many details that have not yet come out in the US mainstream press, but this is a start.
Specop, it's very hard for us to determine what really went on. The problem is that the record of US investigations into the actions of the military in Iraq (e.g. torture) does not inspire much confidence. Now, when the alliance with Italy hangs in the balance, it would be very helpful if the US had greater credibility than it does now.
As posters on the other forum have suggested, a little sensitivity to the feelings of our ally, Italy, would work wonders.
I'm afraid that the tensions between the US and Italy (and the rest of the world in general) will hamper our efforts to handle the tumult of the next decade.
Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 12:18 am Post subject: Erg? Inconsistency?
From the Fox News article:
Quote:
Both reports agreed that about 20 minutes before the shooting, an Italian officer who was the coalition forces' second-in-command in Iraq confirmed to his American aide that the flurry of activity along the airport road had something to do with the Italian journalist.
The Italian then told the American that it was best that no one should know. The American interpreted that statement as an order not to divulge that information.
I could have sworn the official story is that the we didn't know about the Italian journalist. Of course, this could just be something that the soldiers didn't hear... This now shows where the information stopped. Good.
Quote:
"We need to improve our procedures. We regret this happened. We obviously didn't take sufficient precautions," said U.S. Air Force Col. Donald Alston, a spokesman for U.S.-led forces in Baghdad. He added that some of the leaked information appeared classified.
Some? SOME? How about all? The reporter was doing damage control (or was forced to..).
Quote:
Their report noted that the Americans gave several reasons for the lack of warning signs before the roadblock. Among them was that the signs belonging to that U.S. unit were in the hands of "technicians" charged with covering with tape material deemed offensive to civilians.
For a sign that read "Stay back 100 meters or you will be shot," they were to cover up with tape "or you will be shot," according to the American report.
This is something I find loathsome - and my 'calling out on the bullshit' side makes me think that the civilians are probably less worried (and thankful for the warning) for the sign, and more sensitive to, I don't know, killing over 100,000 civilians + the deaths from trade sanctions (embargo) + blasting away infrastructure and not rebuilding it. Oh, don't forget the usage of DU. I think the civilians are thankful, they won't cry for the warning. In fact, I think they may want it.
And then the last 4 paragraphs of this in which I am going crazy over (not only is it in Fox News, but it's like giving a clear 'the soldiers stories/training doesn't add up at all'.)
Quote:
They were further trained upon arrival in Kuwait last fall, and in February they received refresher training on the rules of engagement, including a briefing on positive identification, which requires soldiers to have "reasonable certainty" that an object they attack is a legitimate military target.
The U.S. report makes clear that the soldiers were operating a traffic-blocking, rather than traffic-controlling, point. The difference is that the object of blocking traffic is to ensure that no vehicle proceed past a given point — in this case the onramp to the road leading to Baghdad airport.
Although they had training and experience in operating traffic control points, where cars are stopped and searched, the U.S. investigators said they found no evidence that the soldiers were trained to run blocking positions before their arrival in Iraq. The soldiers "learned and practiced" how to run blocking positions from Feb. 5-15, after relocating from Taji.
The Italian report said investigators found there was lots of confusion among officers and soldiers regarding the rules and procedures governing blocking positions.
These soldiers are simply put, dupes. The signs were covered by 'technicians' for reasons that may fly here in America as just another wimpy political correct thing (i.e. warning labels / PETA / other crap). But, this is the freaking ARMY, I don't think that crap flies well - especially since that each person in Iraqi has at least someone they know be killed by Americans/British (oh, don't forget Poland - which is about the size and population of Illinois). I think that the Iraqi people are more worried about accidentaly getting killed and would appreciate that kind of warning. This entire story just makes me think that the reporter knew his crap well enough - he's just not allowed to make tin-foil hat statements or conclusions.
I propose a tin-foil hat scheme to this: A. The soldiers were dupes given a mission to kill when a car goes past them; when they didn't have the proper training to give warning or succesfully do it. "They were given training in Taji; yet, the italian report shows that the soldiers didn't really have the training. When the roadblock training was only 2 weeks beforehand! B. The 'technicians' and their mission were part of the plot - to let the car have no warning. Because, that seems to be a RIDICULOUS job. Utterly ridiculous. OMG. It's freaking me out. It's a very well set-up accident. (Remember that the soldiers had roadblock training about 2 weeks before their little mission..)
(Also, the headline doesn't match most of the article's content... people could easily pass it up.)
Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:05 am Post subject: Re: The pot calls the kettle black
rerere wrote:
Specop_007 wrote:
Guess what folks? You were, as usual, wrong.
Posters with glass jaws shouldn't throw punches eh SpecOp_007?
How about when you stated:
Specop_007 wrote:
The Geneva Convention doesnt apply to us there. That point should be no argument.
Or this gem:
Specop_007 wrote:
Funny, our 1 page Constitution always struck me as the most progressive.
Maybe because ours focuses on the simple, basic liberties of a people,
(203 lines, 26891 characters VS a 66 line per page and 2000 words per page as the normal 'page' stats.)
Glass jaws? You mean why I wont discuss the Geneva Convention with you?
Well, the day you can argue intelligently and quit intentionally misinterpreting what i say and misrepresenting it, come talk to me.
As for 203 lines vs....
Maybe I'm dense tonight, but whats your point? Comparing the Consitution to the EU version? Only a fool would think the EU Constitution is somehow "simpler" then ours. _________________ "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."
Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
You know, it's stupid-ass posts like this that tick me off. All the relevant posts get knocked off the bottom of the list to make room for pontificators.
You're like Divine in "Female Trouble": "Oh, look! A little stage!" *model, model, primp, primp* _________________ "By the time individuals discover that remaining resources will not be adequate for the next generation, the next generation has already been born. " David Price
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