My University Course in Relation to Peak Oil...

Sonny

Hi everyone, I'm a new poster here. My name is Sean and I'm a 19 year old first year Undergraduate student at Bath University in the UK.
This is quite a long post, so for the people who don't want to read everything I've written here, this is basically the question I want to ask:

Is Civil Engineering a viable profession for a Post-Peak world?

I first learnt about peak oil just after Easter of this year, through Matt Savinar's shockingly gloomy life after the oil crash site! What I read there really threw me, it took me about 4 days to get through the introduction because I couldn't take reading more than a few paragraphs at a time!!!

The end of civilisation as we know it... Jeeeeeeeez.

Well anyway, I commited myself to frenzied reading on the subject to try and convince myself that this was just some crazy conspiracy theory. But to no avail, and following the usual Denial/Anger/Depression cycle eventually just accepted it as fact.

So what since then? I came back to Uni a few weeks back after the end of the Easter Holidays. I have definitely felt different about things since then. Whereas before the holidays I would be pressuring people to go out most nights of the week, now I'm often happy just to spend time on the internet reading up about alternative energy sources and whats happening in the world today.

I've tried telling housemates about the peak oil problem, and although they did make a small effort to listen at the start, I don't think they truly gave it much attention (I gave them the URL to the Matt Savinar site but I dont think most of them read more than a few paragraphs!). One of my friends did read the whole site, but being a permanent optimist he takes the frame of mind 'Don't worry about it, they'll (scientists) find something!'. Even giving a short presentation to the members of the Amnesty International society seems to have had little effect.

Anyway - sorry for the long rambling intro, onto my main question. I am currently doing a 5 year long Civil Engineering course (thats including 1 years worth of placements). Lately I've had a nagging concern growing in the back of my head. Basically I'm no longer sure whether Civil Engineering will be a viable profession post-peak. Sure the number and size of buildings/infrastructure built in the future will have to greatly decrease due to the gradual fall in easy to acquire energy.

I understand that Engineers will be needed to help create a new energy system, but wouldn't skills such as ability to understand Mechanical or Electrical engineering be much more useful, e.g. to design and create solar panels/wind farms? Also, do you think that if things get really bad, the huge amount of engineers put on the renewable energy projects will push us younger more inexperienced engineers out of the loop??

I read an account of someone who lived through the Great Depression a few days ago. They said that they once met a person who said he used to be a Civil Engineer on $8000 dollars a year, but when the Depression hit, he was quickly made redundant. Is Civil Engineering the wrong career for a Post-Peak world??

I need to decide within the next couple of weeks, because my Uni is already expecting people to register all their courses this month. If anyone could help me with this decision I'd be very grateful Smile

!!

Keep your head up...

Sean

nailud · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 1:49 pm Post subject:

Welcome to the group. A lot of us have gone through the same emotional swings you describe after first learning about peak oil. All I can say is that no one can predict hte future. We don't know how all of this will play out or how long it will take. I personally think that a lot of the more extreme survivalist types who post here will be old and grey before they ever get to use the supplies they are stockpiling, but who knows?

I would stick with the engineering. You have to do something, right? Just keep things in perspective and stay flexible.

bobbyald · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject:

Welcome to the group Sonny.

It takes months to really take in the enormity of what PO really means and most people just don’t get it. You do and that puts you well ahead of the game. Don’t make any rash decisions do the course you want to and enjoy it.

Know one knows what the future has in store.

Good luck.
_________________
Life results from the non-random selection of randomly generated replicators

EddieB · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: No one knows

I first read about peak oil in 1998 (Campell's Scientific American article) and I've had it lurking int he bakc of my head since then. Not until this spring did I realize the current run up in prices could be the peak coming a few years earlier than I expected. I'm not a survivalist w/food stocks inthe basement, but I do think we're going to look a lot more like Cuba in a few years. Unemployment and gardens will be all over the place. I'm not an engineer, but if I were going into that field I'd probably pursue the electrical/mechanical before civil. How will we build big steel buildings if the steel is super expensive? Why will we build big highways? Sure there will still be some need for civil engineers, but I'm pessimistic about it being a very big number. We'll probably need a lot of small farmers, craftspeople, and docotrs. Life is going to get simplier and slower. I don't think it will necessarily include a "die-off" as many people claim. The "die-off" is only necessary if you want a Western standard of living for every person on the planet. But it will be hard, no doubt about it.

MattSavinar · Elite Joined: May 09, 2004 Posts: 1990

Ebyss · Posted: Thu May 05, 2005 6:12 pm Post subject:

I agree with what others are saying, don't make any rash decisions. If Civil Engineering is what you really want to do, then stick with it, we just don't know how the future is going to pan out. If on the other hand, it was just a course you picked coz you had to pick something, then changing to something you actually enjoy and are interested in might be a good choice.

If you decide to stick with CE, then take up a range of hobbies that pertain to PO in some way. Gardening, wilderness survival, biking, fishing etc are all good hobbies in themselves, regardless of how bad things get/don't get.
_________________
We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas.

I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.

ubercrap · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 27, 2005 Posts: 318

There's also another take on this, if there is something we don't see coming that allows industrialized civilization to continue for awhile, we'll need to be completely transform the infrastructure, which might mean that Civil Engineers will be badly needed.

Jdelagado · Posted: Fri May 06, 2005 5:09 pm Post subject:

Sonny,

How about becoming an author and writing another peak oil book?

jdelagado

pea-jay · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 1:01 am Post subject:

So you have four more years left? If things fall apart fast enough, you may still not complete your studies. A crash is coming, though I cannot say if it will occur in the next few years. In anycase, I'd start learning informal skills RIGHT NOW and begin adding in your engineering knowledge as you get more familiar with it.

Additionally, take everything you learn on engineering ask this question:
Will this <SUBJECT MATTER> be useful or acheivable with limited energy supplies? If so, its a keeper. Don't waste time on the rest.

Be creative. Find new uses for old techniques and adjust accordingly.
_________________
UNplanning the future...
http://unplanning.blogspot.com

bobcousins · Posted: Sat May 07, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject:

From what I understand, Civil Engineering will be plenty relevant in the future. Post-peak it will have a new dimension, which should make it more interesting. I think the whole area of appropriate technology will become highly relevant.

Personally I found it very useful to have knowledge of real world applications to provide direction to my studies. I would have spent less time studying pure mathematics and more time studying statistics, for example.
_________________
It's all downhill from here

Sonny · Posted: Sun May 08, 2005 1:11 pm Post subject:

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I've decided to stay on with the course I'm on, I do like it but I was just doubting for a while whether it had a serious future!
Oh well someone has to make sure those Nuclear/Fusion power stations stand up!!

Awesome forum by the way, the amount of information and news being discussed here is incredibly useful!

Keep spreading the word, Sean

mrniceguy · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 6:44 am Post subject:

Sean, I think that you've made the right decision. Civil Engineers will be in demand post peak as they are now. I'm just glad you didn't ask the question about media studies, art history or religious studies. Good luck in your course.

Agren · Posted: Thu May 12, 2005 8:36 am Post subject:

killJOY · Fission Joined: Feb 21, 2005 Posts: 2384 Location: ^NNE^

savethehumans · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Oct 20, 2004 Posts: 1541

With electricity either gone, too expensive, or ineffective, people are going to want to live/work in structures built to naturally keep them cool in summer, warm in winter. There's lots of ways to build such "passive" houses--as well as ways to localize any kind of power they might be able to wangle (for food, cooking, showering and cleaning, etc).

This, too, is civil engineering. Learn your basics in school--and also study eco-friendly, power-reducing structures and materials. That way, you can be ready to become someone who can CONVERT a building into something post-peak usable--or BUILD one (from natural materials and materials from torn down buildings--of which there will be many). Your skills are a GREAT way to contribute to your community, as well as keep you fed, clothed, sheltered, health-cared for, et al.

The question you need to ask isn't: should I quit this major? It's "how can I take this and prepare myself for post-peak?" In short, LET them teach you about building skyscrapers...YOU learn building BASICS, and add post-peak building skills to them! (P.S. Try to keep in mind that your grades aren't the most important thing here--getting well-developed skills ARE. Don't get caught up in the paper chase, OK? OK!)