Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
That is one upset donkey . I might just have to get one... lol.
I saw one for sale in the paper this morning (coincidence???) for $250... but first I have to come up with money for the goats and their housing etc! Thanks for the link Ebyss.
K
Well......
it looks like we might just be goat owners
We're going Saturday morning to get Cinnamon (the doe) and Rocky (the wether) - We're supposed to meet the lady who's selling them at about 9:30 am, but I'm going early for a crash course on milking, hoof trimming and every other thing I dont know yet lol. She's meeting us at a mutual friend's house (who also raises goats). She's already told me she'll help out in any way she can - and when the time comes that we have new kids, she'll disbud them for me the first time, so I dont have to do it. This is so cool.
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1636 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Wed May 11, 2005 11:00 am Post subject:
Kathy,
Congratulations! Happy herding.
I'm not sure I will de-bud our goats. I like the look of the horns and they are their best defense against predators. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
that is exciting! Don't you just love buying new livestock....
Quote:
I'm not sure I will de-bud our goats. I like the look of the horns and they are their best defense against predators.
Not only that, but horns are one of the ways animals regulate temperature---all that blood that gets pumped through them. However, I have children, and it's just not worth the danger to me. We leave the horns on the bucklings that we're planning to eat, and we're always getting bruises from them. Not that they're mean or aggressive, but just being around them as they swing their heads at flies, or play with us or each other. So as long as I have children around (a long time, I hope!) we'll disbud any animals that will be around for any length of time. Also, those dairy goat udders are so big and tight----they're like water balloons, which doesn't really go with sharp, little sticky-out horns, either.
Quote:
I'll chime in here bc I'm a big dog lover. If you are going to buy a dog for any reason, make sure you pick a breed suited for you climate! Most of the shepherding dogs originated in Europe, which is far cooler than most places in the U.S. For example, I live in Arkansas and have owned numerous mastiffs, which in theory are also a good flock protectors. However, the mastiff is not good in warm climates like Arkansas, and would suffer greatly if left outside in Arkansas heat and humidity to protect a flock. So, at least in my part of the world, a dog like a mastiff or even a long haired pyrenese would not fair well. Down here, a better dog for shepherding would be any of the typical hunting dogs, which have no love of coyotes - nor do pigs (pigs hate coyotes). I know farmers here use dogs like the Rhodesian Ridgback which is virtually impervious to weather extremes, insects, and very protective. Just, check out the suitability of the climate on a dog before you put them out somewhere in the hot sun.
We live in a fairly warm climate, down here in the southern appalachians, and our Pyrs have never had a problem with the heat. It is awfully important to get a breed that has livestock guarding instincts, not livestock herding instincts. Herding dogs are bred to chase animals, and without lots of training and control they can be hell on your goats. There is nothing more disheartening than having your animals hurt or killed by your own dog! _________________ ncgoatgirl
http://moonmeadow.blogspot.com
Well, I'm officially a goat mommy !
Cinnamon and Rocky were here by noon, and we spent the rest of the day (till dark) getting their shelter finished. I'm worn completely out, and sunburned to boot. But tonight they're in their (almost finished) shelter. It has four solid walls and most of a roof, so they should be okay (I hope!). Tomorrow we finish the roof, build a stancion for milking, and get feeding and watering more nailed down.
I did also milk Cinnamon today, and though she knew I was a newbie, she was very patient with me. Carlin held her collar for me while I milked (and she ate). I got about a quart of milk. Could have gotten more but she was pretty fed up with my inexperience I think lol, so I gave her a break. I'll go at it again in the morning.
Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement and advice. I'm pooped now, so I'm probably going to bed. I dont know how much sleep I'll get from worrying about them all night (they're crying their little goat heads off for me right now - I spent the entire day out there with them and now they're wondering where I am ).... but hopefully they'll be alright.
Thanks again,
Kathy
Cinnamon and Rocky have survived quite nicely, and are snug in their shelter at nights. We still have some fine tuning to do on the building (trim and such), but it, along with the 30x40 ft. pen, is done. Carlin has been helping with the morning and evening milking by holding Cinnamon's collar for me - because as yet we still have no milking stand. He is working on building one today at work. Hopefully it'll be finished today. I need to trim some feet, and need that stancion to get it done.
Cinnamon has given us almost 7 quarts of milk since Saturday. I've learned better how to milk her, and she's learned about me better - I think we're both more comfortable with the whole idea . The milk is wonderfully creamy and tasty. I've already decided that if she continues to give us as much milk as she has, I am through with buying dairy products at the store (except perhaps butter). Besides being tasty and better for you, this also will reduce my purchasing of plastic milk jugs. There is a recycle center nearby that takes plastic, but I hate buying the stuff. Everytime I see a milk jug, I think "dead dinosaurs."
I also already have my first milk customer. He's buying a quart from me tomorrow for $1.50 . I doubt I'll have a lot of extra milk to share - I plan to make cheese, and perhaps experiment with soap as well. But, from time to time selling a little milk will bring in some cash.
Cinnamon and Rocky are both wonderful, sweet, and patient animals. I'm glad we decided to get them.
Kathy
Joined: Dec 08, 2004 Posts: 1636 Location: Nez Perce Nation
Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 12:59 pm Post subject:
Kathy,
It's great to hear these first hand stories of people's experience. Keep them coming!
Maybe we'll put them all into a "Peak Oil People" website that shows the evolving adaptation of people as they try to cope with the coming events. _________________ "Modern Agriculture is the use of land to convert petroleum into food."
-- Albert Bartlett
"It will be a dark time. But for those who survive, I suspect it will be rather exciting."
-- James Lovelock
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13141 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Mon May 16, 2005 1:22 pm Post subject:
Yesterday my friend who raises dairy goats gave a demonstration of milking. I saw that even one goat produces far more milk than we would use in a day, so if we had goats, we'd have to make cheese.
I'm wondering if my future Jacob sheep will produce enough milk to be able to get a little of it...
But I am now considering dairy goats, after seeing those my friend has.
Incidentally, she lost 7 baby goats to an EAGLE! We think it is a Golden Eagle!
We're not big dairy people at all in my house, no milk, no yoghurt due to allergies. We do eat cheese though... and I love goats cheese. Is it possible to get goats and just milk when you need some, or must you milk them every day?
How easy is it to make goats cheese?
That's a pity about losing 7 kids Ludi, but wonderful that Golden Eagles are still around and thriving. _________________ We've tried nothin' and we're all out of ideas.
I am only one. I can only do what one can do. But what one can do, I will do. -- John Seymour.
Ebyss & Ludi,
We don't drink a bunch of milk here either, but I also love goat cheese, and plan to make a lot . Don't forget, Ludi, you can also make goats milk soap. I plan to do that when/if we get overloaded. And you can also freeze the milk for use when you need it.
Yes, you must milk the goat everyday (twice a day, most of the time) when she's freshened - unless of course, you let her kid continue to nurse, in which case, she'll handle it all quite nicely and wean the kid when she's done. From what I understand, the more often you milk her, the more calm she will be with the whole process.
This morning, Cinnamon's got an attitude () and doesn't want me to milk her. I could not get her to stand still for anything, and Carlin had to leave to go to work. I was freaking out. The stancion is in pieces, because we ran out of daylight yesterday and Carlin didnt get it put together. So, I had to call for emergency 911 help from my friend who is far more experienced than I am with goats. She milks 7 does every morning and evening. She should be here in the next hour or so to help. Cinnamon will surely be ready to be milked by then! (2 or 3 hours late!) I'm sure the pressure on her udders will make her more than ready to be milked by then.
My friend says its possible that Cinnamon may be going into heat and that's why she has an attitude. Most goats are seasonal breeders, but Nubians, being from warmer climates, will breed any time of the year. She just needs an attitude adjustment, I think . Rocky (the baby) is just as sweet as ever, but he sure likes to get right in the middle of everything I'm doing - and right under my feet. That can also be frustrating.
Oh well.... live and learn. I'm glad things went so smoothly the first few days. But today, I'm pulling my hair out . Hopefully by this evening's milking, Cinnamon's attitude will have improved . I'll keep you updated on the adventure!
Kathy
Last edited by CarlinsDarlin on Tue May 17, 2005 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Well the help arrived (yay!), and we got her milked and feet trimmed. I'm glad to say it wasn't just me she was acting like a pain in the ass for - she treated my friend (Sharon) the same way. But Sharon showed me some tips and tricks to get Cinnamon to settle down, and by the time she was finished (having kicked over the entire bucket of milk ) she was more calm. My friend said it is likely that Cinnamon is going into heat - and she's also decided to test me to see what she can get away with. Gotta show her who's the boss . I have to teach her that being good is a lot more comfortable for her than being bad . And that I won't quit until I'm finished. Like a child that tests parents from time to time, Cinnamon is just seeing exactly how much she can get away with.
It's a learning experience . My advice to other newbies - i.e., that "what I learned from this experience..." is: Dont think you can start out with more than one doe milking lol. Seriously, if they think they can bully you, they will. Now I just have to un-do what she learned this morning by getting away with her bad behavior. Today's adventure has taught me my limits. I'll have to learn to deal with her behavior when she acts like this much more effectively before I try to expand the herd .
Kathy
Thanks, Pops. I'm learning a lot from doing , i.e., goat husbandry, that I never learned in my reading about goats in the last year. Since I've got a great mentor locally who's guiding me and answering my "freaked out" questions , I'm hoping the information will be useful to others if I pass it on .
So here's the latest update on the goat saga lol...
This evening's milking was good. She didn't kick over her pail lol which is an improvement from this morning. Of course, since we milked her late this morning there was a LOT of milk then (that she kicked over ), but not so much tonight (I milked her at her regular time.)
She only tried to act up once or twice, and I swatted her rear (haunch) and told her NO in a firm voice. She settled down after that and let me finish milking her. I will add, though, that the way I got her to stand still, based on Sharon's good advice, was to stand her along a section of wall and tie her collar up close to the wall. On a short lead. So she can't throw her head back. Then, I milk her with her standing along the wall, so that if she starts kicking, I can lean into her and push her into the wall. Just enough pressure to make it uncomfortable (not so easy to breathe when you're being smashed ). When she settles down, I let up on the pressure, and she learns that being good feels better than being bad .
The other trick I learned, is to put the milking bucket further forward and "aim" for it with the milk - rather than setting it directly under the udder. The further forward it is, the less likely she'll be able to kick it over or step in it.
To an experienced goat handler, these things might seem like common sense. But to a total newbie like me it's an "ah-ha" moment when I learn something like this. I learned a lot today.
Now I just have to learn how to get Rocky to calm down whenever I leave lol. He's becoming totally spoiled rotten and wants to follow me everytime I leave the pen (which makes for some interesting escapes on my part). I had to reinforce an interior gate in the pen to keep him away from the "people door." He got his head stuck once trying to squeeze through. I unlodged him, and immediately fixed that gap by putting 2x4 wire across the opening. No more stuck heads now, hopefully .
I have a Rhodesian Ridgeback dog and I dont have a herd for him to protect, but I can tell you that he protects our family. Great family dog and guardian. Good side is that I can take him to PetsMart and places and he is very friendly unless he is agressively acted upon. We take him camping and our tent site becomes home for him so don't intrude on our site, but we can go walking and he'll greet strangers friendly.
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. I might just have to get one... lol.
).... but hopefully they'll be alright.
) and doesn't want me to milk her. I could not get her to stand still for anything, and Carlin had to leave to go to work. I was freaking out. The stancion is in pieces, because we ran out of daylight yesterday and Carlin didnt get it put together. So, I had to call for emergency 911 help from my friend who is far more experienced than I am with goats. She milks 7 does every morning and evening. She should be here in the next hour or so to help. Cinnamon will surely be ready to be milked by then! (2 or 3 hours late!) I'm sure the pressure on her udders will make her more than ready to be milked by then.
) she was more calm. My friend said it is likely that Cinnamon 
. I have to teach her that being good is a lot more comfortable for her than being bad 
), but not so much tonight (I milked her at her regular time.)
