Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 4189 Location: 1st territorial capitol of AZ
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:46 pm Post subject:
I lot of Kunstler's attitude can be explained by his Jewish contempt for everyone who isn't urban, living the way he does, thinking the way he does, etc you know the story. But he just incidentally has very good points, since Peak Oil is a real problem and a good platform to rant at the goyim with, and he does it well.
Using occam's razor ain't always pretty, but it works!
I lot of Kunstler's attitude can be explained by his Jewish contempt for everyone who isn't urban, living the way he does, thinking the way he does, etc you know the story. But he just incidentally has very good points, since Peak Oil is a real problem and a good platform to rant at the goyim with, and he does it well.
Using occam's razor ain't always pretty, but it works!
this post is full of nonsense. so Kunstler is smart and angry. Does that make him Jewish? I'm sure there are a lot of smart, angry Jews living in suburbia who don't know squat about Peak Oil.
Kunstler lives in Saratoga New York, a large town/small city hundreds of miles from any urban center.
and what is this occam's razor comment? The only thing obvious here is a cheap shot.
Joined: Jun 12, 2005 Posts: 4189 Location: 1st territorial capitol of AZ
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 5:29 pm Post subject:
No, Kunstler's Jewish. Read his page, read his stuff, etc. the pattern emerges. It does not matter that I like his activism and I like his writing, the pattern is there. It's being channeled in a useful direction, and I like that.
Read "The View From Sunset Boulevard" by Ben Stein, great book, anyone? anyone?
Kunstler's "Geography of Nowhwere" is an important book. It justified my lifelong disgust with sprawl. Kunstler is a brave person and I commend his sane angry voice in the face of a Matrix-like national psychosis. Anyone who isn't disgusted with this once great nation is either stupid or corrupt.
Given that, his "Long Emergency" may be a bit redundent. Deffeyes and Simmons have more credibility (and for me) new and interesting petroleum geology and geopolitics. For the doomer perspective I can't wait for Savinar's book to arrive (it seems backordered or lost in the mail or somthing) I own Rupert's book and it kind of scares me. Kind of a dark, dark, dark rabbit hole.
pete
Email with your real name and I'll look into where your book is. I handle all orders myself, and nothing is on backorder. Once in a while something may get screwed up, but I always rectify it immediately upon notification.
I agree with your feelings about Kuntsler. He was entertaining and effective in The End of Suburbia, but now I've about had my fill of him. I also disagree about the prospects for the southeastern USA. Once freezing winters set in in the upper mid-west during the natural gas crisis, I think a LOT of people will start moving south when they lose their job.
Don't forget, he thought Y2K was going to be a big deal, so he obviously doesn't have a perfect track record.
Once freezing winters set in in the upper mid-west during the natural gas crisis, I think a LOT of people will start moving south when they lose their job.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6461 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:21 am Post subject:
Lora wrote:
MicroHydro,
Once freezing winters set in in the upper mid-west during the natural gas crisis, I think a LOT of people will start moving south when they lose their job.
Lora
I disagree, Lora. Try living in the South without air conditioning. It's a lot more effective to heat using wood than it is to cool using the back of your hand).
Those who are "sick" of Kunstler may just be having trouble accepting his admittedly unpleasant, painful, and negative, but oh-so-true, message.
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 20 Location: Midwest, USA
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:38 am Post subject:
Heineken wrote:
I disagree, Lora. Try living in the South without air conditioning. It's a lot more effective to heat using wood than it is to cool using the back of your hand).
Unless you're a senior citizen, it's much easier to freeze to death than it is to die of heat stroke.
Personally, I found it amusing that Kunstler happened to pick the neck of the woods where he's already settled as the best place to be during an oil crash. Me, I'll be moving away from below-freezing average winter temps to a place more mild. Chopping wood is fun... but not *that* fun.
Actually I do think Peak Oil will be largely a geography popularity contest, as Kunstler does. I just think he has some of the winners mixed up. You can't tell me Virginia isn't one of the best places post-peak oil, especially once they start building a lot of nuke plants there.
Another thing, Kunstler better hope that the south doesn't fall into some kind of "Deliverance" scenario, because if it does, all that will happen is massive migration of 1) the educated 2) transplanted northerners 3) moderately wealthy to his neck of the woods.
The US has too large of a population for any region to escape the problems that are occuring in another region. For instance, the whole country will suffer once the depopulation of California begins.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6461 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:46 pm Post subject:
Lora wrote:
the whole country will suffer once the depopulation of California begins.
There, Lora, I think you hit the nail squarely on the head.
But let's remember that, as transportation deteriorates, people will be less mobile. So there could be an odd clash between a desperate desire to move to less populous, potentially more livable areas and a lack of ready means to get there. Of course, people made huge migrations before there were planes, trains, and automobiles, but mortality rates were incredibly high.
The idea that people are going to just leave LA and NYC and Atlanta en masse and "go somewhere" and make a living off the land (in the North or in the South) is basically preposterous. Probably at least 90% of Americans don't have the slightest clue how to raise so much as a tomato, much less preserve it for the winter. Again, although some will succeed, the vast majority of those attempting this in desperate times are simply going to die. They will have the future of polar bears suddenly plunked down in the middle of the Sahara.
We've lost the homesteading skills our forefathers (and mothers) had and exchanged them for the comforts of total dependence. We are just terribly, terribly vulnerable without our Safeway and our Wal-Mart and our Exxon and that paycheck from our job shuffling information.
Joined: May 21, 2004 Posts: 198 Location: East Coast USA
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:01 pm Post subject:
Kunstler is ethnically Jewish or at least half-Jewish (read some of his autobiographical writings on his site), but he doesn't strike me as being particularly religious one way or another. I would suspect based on his general worldview that he is an agnostic or an atheist. His Jewish background explains a lot about his views of the South, Arabs, etc., though.
I think his rants are pretty amusing and occasionally educational, and I wouldn't miss them for the world. With Kunstler, what you see is what you get, there is no pretention. He lets it all hang out. I'd love to buy him a beer someday and chat. _________________ www.searchingforthetruth.com
The truth that is suppressed by friends is the readiest weapon of the enemy.
- Robert Louis Stevenson
Sadly, sometimes how you say something is more important than what you're saying. I'm afraid that Kunstler is dangerously close to becoming the Peak Oil equivalent of Michael Moore, who quickly became so revolting to mainstream Americans that he cost Kerry the election. Not that the election wasn't rigged anyway. I can see how someone watching the End of Suburbia or reading his columns would get turned off by his arrogance and his uncanny ability to laugh at people who are at least attempting to do something about PO. I think JK is right about a lot of things but he could use a lesson in diplomacy and PR.
It is possible to make your point without pissing off everyone around you, because once people are annoyed, they'll never listen and they'll do the exact opposite out of spite.
It is possible to make your point without pissing off everyone around you, because once people are annoyed, they'll never listen and they'll do the exact opposite out of spite.
That says more about them than it says about you. If people don't want to listen to what you have to say, they'll find all sorts of flimsy excuses not to. If Kunstler talked to people with kindergarden language they would still find a way to criticise him because it's the message that they don't like, not the presentation.
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