'Kunstler.com' J.H. Kunstler [WEB]

MicroHydro · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Apr 10, 2005 Posts: 1286

Ok, I was a good sport and bought The Long Emergency and read all of it. There was much to agree with. Unfortunately, there were many idiosyncratic unsupported opinions and no new or useful information. The only thing I really liked about the book was expressed in the title. I agree that fossil fuel depletion will not be a single apocalyptic event but a series of problems compounding over decades. But that is hardly a fresh revelation. Suburbia was well criticized back in the 1950s as well. So my feelings were ambivalent.

Finally, this post appeared on his website:
http://www.kunstler.com/mags_diary13.html

This is really worthless stuff, the man has lost it.

Ok, misanthropes has made great contributions to American social criticism, H.L. Mencken comes to mind. Kunstler is no Mencken.

Dr. Hunter S. Thompson's semi-autobiographical over the top "gonzo journalism" created a true literary classic with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. But 1971 was long ago, and Kunstler is no Thompson.

So Kunstler is frustrated by air travel, can see that United Airlines is gutted, has a bad hip, isn't impressed by workplace fashions at Google, hates LA, and has a low opinion of various grassroots groups that are trying to improve their communities. So what? I see a angry and depressed writer flying around the country burning jet fuel and chasing fiat currency (just like almost all of us in the developed world) while advocating that Americans all retreat to small towns in the northeast or northwest US.

Why even bother to read this stuff? Simmons and Deffeyes taught me things I didn't know. Kunstler simply irritated me. Kunstler is Peak Oil's version of Andy Rooney. If one is entertained by a baby boomer who has managed to become a cranky old man at age 56, maybe he is good for a few laughs. Other than that, he isn't worth reading.

{The debate rages within how to sort out this thread. Rather than hack it up, since most of it is about Jim himself, for now, pointing at his website makes the most sense. A "Long Emergency" review is already posted in a separate thread. EE}
_________________
"The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel

jato · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:47 pm Post subject:

So he was having a bad day. Cool

I enjoyed his rant. He is trying to sound the alarm and he is being ignored. I feel that way on this forum sometimes. A lot of people just don't understand the consequences of Peak Oil IMHO. Most fail to grasp the economic effects of declining energy.
_________________
"Peak oil isn't more than an interesting industry factoid and doesn't have anything to do with the hysterics speculated on ad nauseum around here!" ReserveGrowthRulz

Jack · Moderator Joined: Aug 11, 2004 Posts: 4837

I, too, found the book interesting - and the rant wasn't bad at all. Cool

As Jato points out, attempts to deal with the wilfully ignorant can become tedious. Perhaps Mr. Kunstler is attempting to figuratively shake the inert masses until they pay attention.
_________________
Dieoff. Fun to watch. Better with hot buttered popcorn! new_popcornsmiley

JB2 · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:37 pm Post subject:

I thought the rant was pretty hilarious myself. It's a blog, for Pete's sake, not some ponderous essay on the last page of Time magazine.

If you want to read some real misanthropy, check out the last book of Gulliver's Travels. You'll laugh until you cry.

Also, it's worth reading Fark Nation at this address:

http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/Fark/

This way you can access the reader comments; most of JHK's readers and fans are well aware of what a fussy wierdo he is, and they let him know it.

And P.S., Kunstler is a much better writer than Hunter S.

Heineken · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject:

I would count myself as a Kunstler fan. He hits the nail squarely on the head too many times for me to dismiss him. He has become an eloquent voice for many of our inchoate ideas as PO ratchets up. As a society, we need more Kunstlers to knock us out of our consensus trance.

I was a bit disappointed in "The Long Emergency," though. He has too many pet expressions ("cheap-oil fiesta," etc.), and they tend to lose their punch through constant repetition. And the various typos got on my nerves (a decent proofreading job ought to be included in the price of the book).

I was floored by his seeming defense of Bush's invasion of Iraq. I thought to myself, What has he (Kunstler) been smoking? Those pages were truly jarring, imbedded as they are in a book that is otherwise a total condemnation of everything Bush stands for both directly and indirectly, i.e., "the American way of life."

The book, which I read as soon as it came out, hasn't had much staying power in my consciousness (except for the ending, which I thought superb). The book could have been good or even great with much better editing.

MicroHydro · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Apr 10, 2005 Posts: 1286

If Kunstler's crankiness was confined to his blog, it would be harmless.

But his characterizations of various US regions in his book is pretty inflammatory and of dubious utility. Kunstler favors "the old union" states, which makes sense for a native of that region. But those areas have harsh winters, poor soils, and were abandoned for farming after the midwest was opened. There are many things about "the land of NASCAR" that Kunstler doesn't like. Ok, fine. But those states have milder winters and much more per capita agricultural productivity than New England and New York. Kunstler's idea that the northeast US will be more viable than the southeast US post peak oil is questionable to say the least. And it is this quirkiness as a messenger that undermines Kunstler's delivery of the peak oil message.

A PO-naive listener with average social skills could quickly categorize Kunstler as a classic ranting crank and consequently dismiss PO. Perhaps that is why he is dismissed when he speaks. For this reason, I have not loaned out Kunstler's book to anyone I was trying to educate.
_________________
"The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel

basketballjones · Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:02 pm Post subject:

albente · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 1320

I_Like_Plants · Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:33 am Post subject:

Yeah, guy was just having a bad day, modern travel can do that to people!

I don't like his pro-war stance and his ranting about "islamo-fascism" but I love most of what he does, and he's sure out there getting the word out.

His hatred of Muslims and Southerners has to be taken with a big grain of Kosher salt, haha! He has a lot of good points and he really wrote a classic in "The Geography Of Nowhere". The guy's done a lot of good work and will continue to do so.

twofiftyfive · Tar Sands Joined: Apr 04, 2005 Posts: 30

MicroHydro · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Apr 10, 2005 Posts: 1286

Heineken · Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:05 am Post subject:

Regarding the viability of the Northeast versus the Southeast post-PO, I can say, as someone who lives on a small farm in the Virginia Piedmont and attempts to grow stuff there, that the biggest agricultural issues of the future will be bugs, weeds, and plant diseases, which are currently controlled mostly with vast infusions of pesticides, herbicides, and fungicides (all of which, as has been repeated ad nauseum, are oil-derived). After these chemicals become scarce or uneconomical to use, yields are going to drop astoundingly---organic is great, but yields are a lot lower. The Northeast has a less severe problem with insects and will be correspondingly better off. Also, a lot of the South's soil was badly damaged by centuries of tobacco farming. I'm not convinced that, for small-scale farming, the soils here are fundamentally superior to the Northeast's, except for some very rocky areas in New England. The climate difference isn't a big factor; although the South certainly has a longer growing season, its heat and droughts are far worse than the Northeast's, so there I think you have a wash at most.

Kunstler made cogent and insightful points about the cultural differences between North and South. I agree with him that those favor the North. The average citizen will in many ways (except for home heating) be better off in the North. (And here I am stuck in the South.)

pstarr · Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 4:56 pm Post subject:

Kunstler's "Geography of Nowhwere" is an important book. It justified my lifelong disgust with sprawl. Kunstler is a brave person and I commend his sane angry voice in the face of a Matrix-like national psychosis. Anyone who isn't disgusted with this once great nation is either stupid or corrupt.

Given that, his "Long Emergency" may be a bit redundent. Deffeyes and Simmons have more credibility (and for me) new and interesting petroleum geology and geopolitics. For the doomer perspective I can't wait for Savinar's book to arrive (it seems backordered or lost in the mail or somthing) I own Rupert's book and it kind of scares me. Kind of a dark, dark, dark rabbit hole. Crying or Very sad

pete
_________________
director

ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap wav

Heineken · Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:02 am Post subject:

jaws · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Apr 24, 2005 Posts: 1257

Kunstler is a crazy old man, but he's earned that right. And who else do you know travels around the midwest telling people their soldiers are fighting for a country that will soon not be worth defending? That takes cojones of steel.