Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: C'mon folks...!
LadyRuby wrote:
Woah Bessy!! I think there's a little too much gloom and doom here. Come on, people, this is sounding a little insane here.
This death to all, destruction, etc. seems over the top. We may certainly struggle and have economic hardships that perhaps none of us has known in our lifetime, but personally I believe this is something we can get through. In the "Great Depression" in the U.S., it was very tough for lots of folks (except the very wealthy), but the country didn't entirely fall apart, resort to anarchy, etc. We may have staggering unemployment but if we are able to concentrate our energies and resources on rebuilding our energy system, it may only be 10 or 15 years of real hardship. It doesn't mean everyone is going to die, or even suffer miserably.
My personal opinion is that on these boards there's a lot of very good information, and very IMPORTANT information. And much cause to be concerned and try to get our leaders on the right track. But there seem to be a fair number of folks on this board who are a little over the top in their apocalyptic forecasts, hoarding food, guns, etc. Just my two cents. I won't say, "we'll be fine," but I don't think it will be the end of civilization!
jupiter422-
This is one of the better posts (see above)...........
Joined: Mar 21, 2005 Posts: 139 Location: Escondido
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:45 pm Post subject:
jdelagado Don't assume you know my research habits .I have read articles for hour and hours on various web sites .
Thats why peak oil scares it scares me because I have read and analyzed enough data to have a good understanding of what is happening and I believe it is scary to anyone that understands the impact of this...To some level your scared , but You won't admit it.
Don't ever assume or juge members on there post.
You ever heard the exopression assuming makes an as- out of you
Joined: Aug 13, 2004 Posts: 1185 Location: Richmond, VA, Pale Blue Dot
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:42 am Post subject:
*ahem* jdelagado...just a bit of neighborly advice. Whether it's the end of the world or the dawn of the conservation age, it is not wise to bet on surviving whatever happens in the Arizona Desert.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12473 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:30 am Post subject:
Quote:
We may have staggering unemployment but if we are able to concentrate our energies and resources on rebuilding our energy system, it may only be 10 or 15 years of real hardship.
Which we'll somehow be able to do with widespread poverty and an existing economy and infrastructure in shambles... Not really sure how that will work, but good for you for being optimistic!
Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 1206 Location: Western US
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:37 am Post subject:
Actually I don't feel like I'm particularly all that optimistic. I was reading a book about the depression and it was partially caused by unwarranted optimism. I think that sentiment could easily apply to our times. We (in the US) have a horrendous deficit, real estate prices have been rising senselessly and may crash, and no REAL movement is being made to move us off of petroleum. So I'm concerned, quite seriously. But with the right leadership (definitely NOT our current leadership) I think we could get through, not without hardship and suffering of course.
But with the right leadership (definitely NOT our current leadership) I think we could get through, not without hardship and suffering of course.
PO is kinda like your avatar... hard to tell if it's sunrise or sunset.
Remember... just because you're paranoid doesn't mean something isn't really out to get you.
And if you are saying that many around here are PO pessimists... well... you have a point.
But that doesn't mean they are wrong.
I have also researched Peak Oil in depth, and seen my own perception evolve over time. It's funny, (not ha ha funny), that it's not the doomer oriented opinions which scare me, but the views of more conservative sources.
Dieoff.org does little to frighten me... likewise lifeaftertheoilcrash.net holds little fear for me. Ruppert... nope.
It's Simmons & companies observations which truly frighten me.
A decades long decent down Hubbert's Peak featuring 3% - 4% depletion would be a tough, but probably manageable transition.
But if the predictions of rapid depletion prove true, and we experience 10% or worse depletion as the giant fields peak & decline...
Be afraid... very afraid.
When times are hard... table manors change.
We already see TPTB positioning themselves for the game of the century.
With America's global military adventurism, China's economic conquest of global markets, Russia seemingly unable, (or unwilling) to ramp up oil production. Admissions from oil majors on over-stated reserves, and confirmation of peak in some major fields, (like Cantrell).
Be aware of oil depletion...
Be afraid of how your fellow monkeys will react to it. _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 2123 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:19 am Post subject:
Aaron wrote:
Be aware of oil depletion...
Be afraid of how your fellow monkeys will react to it.
LOL! Man, I love that line Aaron.
In the end, that's where my feelings of "doom and gloom" comes along. I have no worries about living in a low-tech world. I often do that for fun and recreation these days. What worries me is how my "fellow monkeys will react" to a world so very different than the one they feel is their birthright.
Face it, the people of today are a very different breed than the people of the 1920s and 1930s. To expect them to respond similary is a mistake, I think.
And then, of course, during the Great Depression, the US had "unlimited" energy resources, which will not be available this time around. No, the Great Depression cannot be looked at as a preview of things to come Post Peak.
jdelagado Don't assume you know my research habits .I have read articles for hour and hours on various web sites .
Thats why peak oil scares it scares me because I have read and analyzed enough data to have a good understanding of what is happening and I believe it is scary to anyone that understands the impact of this...To some level your scared , but You won't admit it.
Don't ever assume or juge members on there post.
You ever heard the exopression assuming makes an as- out of you
I am assuming nothing about you. I am suggesting to you and everyone to be informed about any and all issues on all sides, that's it...
Joined: Jun 03, 2005 Posts: 216 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject:
Not for myself, exactly. And I don't have children, so I'm not directly concerned for my offspring.
What I fear is that in our overpopulation and desperation, that we'll do something irreparable to the planet. Planets can die. We could put up so much carbon dioxide that the plankton die off, or burn off the rainforests in the Amazon, or something along those lines to trigger a terrible reaction.
One of my main enjoyments in life is the outdoors. I felt genuine, heartfelt joy upon hearing of the rediscovery of the ivory-billed woodpecker. That's the way I want this world to go, with more magical discoveries in moss-hung sunlit swamps. That is what I work towards with my money and my time, when I can spare it from work.
And that's what I fear will be overwhelmed by Peak Oil. All the triumphs, such as the return of the bald eagle and peregrine falcon, and the shad to the eastern US rivers - all these results of 50 years of patient work, legislation, and caring - to be swept away because we weren't men and women enough to govern our most meaningless actions, such as driving some idiotically sized vehicle in hopes of looking threatening.
So, that's my fear, that this beautiful, abundant earth will gradually (or perhaps suddenly) become a dead rather than a living planet.
What I fear is that in our overpopulation and desperation, that we'll do something irreparable to the planet. Planets can die. We could put up so much carbon dioxide that the plankton die off, or burn off the rainforests in the Amazon, or something along those lines to trigger a terrible reaction.
.
Concidering the vastsness of the universe, I'm sure this has happend before and will again and maybe is a pattern that is pervasive, who cares, hopefully we will destroy ourselves before that happens but then again what does it matter if your dead. Back to the subject...
I heard a comment that someone was fearful or maybe just disappointed that their children and grandchildren will live a less technological way of life? How about being happy that they will lead a life that is sustainable and not rife with glutony and greed?
What do I fear?
When I joined you all... I became afraid that I would have to defend my life. So I bought a gun. Now I am afraid that I will have to take someone's life. I don't know which is worse. It's not something to take lightly and another reason I know there is far too few ways out. What step is that? _________________ -Dac
Winners never quit and quiters never win, but those that never win and never quit are idiots.
Joined: Jun 06, 2005 Posts: 16 Location: Louisville, Kentucky USA
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:26 pm Post subject:
You're goddamn right I'm scared of Peak Oil. What makes me especially scared is that I'm 25 and getting married in a month to a girl I love and now I feel like our future together is over before it's even begun. Peak Oil has been causing a lot of tension in our relationship lately, mainly due to my obsession with it, however she agrees that it is a real problem. Maybe she's right when she says in anger and frustration to me, "then what's the point of getting married, of having children, of planning a future together?"
I want to be positive, I try to be positive, I try to do good things like drive less, bike more, and conserve energy. I want to learn permaculture, I want to live a sustainable, low-energy life off the grid. Things like that give me hope. And then I read stuff like this, from Jan Lundberg on Culture Change:
Quote:
Die off will kick in first in terms of riots and killings by armed marauders, and "the police and military will not be able to keep order more than a few days, if at all" [my statement in Congress]. Next will come starvation, and cannibalism can only get people so far -- especially with rampant disease and lack of clean water to drink. Starvation will take care of perhaps 95% (ninety-five per cent) of the petroleum-dependent populations in the U.S. and perhaps elsewhere in modern industrialized countries.
I feel like I'm losing hope and losing my sanity. My family whom I love very much lives 1000 miles away and now I think about how little I'll probably get to visit them before the crap hits the fan. Maybe it's best to just try to make peace with myself and know that my time on this earth is rapidly running out when it always felt that I had so much to look forward to. I've been considering buying a gun just to keep in the closet for protection (after all, I do live in Kentucky) and what scares me is not knowing if someday I will have to use it on someone else or on myself. _________________ "Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows"
-Leonard Cohen
Joined: Jun 03, 2005 Posts: 216 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:30 pm Post subject:
Roop, nobody has a clear view of what will happen. I do think, though, that you will be stronger as part of a team with your girlfriend. Think several years ahead, and be gradual in your planning. Many of the initial steps to take are good advice for anyone, so they won't be that difficult to take.
Kentucky's quite a good place to be in a Peak Oil scenario, so you're already ahead of the game. The one thing I would hesitate about is kids - but you are only just getting married, you can afford to wait on that. Three years should make things much clearer.
Good luck, and get outdoors with your girlfriend. That's my panacea. Kentucky has some beautiful state parks, and it's summer, so take some hiking or bicycle trips and enjoy!
Kentucky has some beautiful state parks, and it's summer, so take some hiking or bicycle trips and enjoy!
Plus you'll be in great shape when President Hillary calls on you to defend my god-given right to drive my fat ass to the Starbucks next door in my SUV.
(I'll check in on your girlfriend when me & my "Reapers" loot through your area. I'll loot her something nice) _________________ "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen F Roberts.
You're goddamn right I'm scared of Peak Oil. What makes me especially scared is that I'm 25 and getting married in a month to a girl I love and now I feel like our future together is over before it's even begun. Peak Oil has been causing a lot of tension in our relationship lately, mainly due to my obsession with it, however she agrees that it is a real problem. Maybe she's right when she says in anger and frustration to me, "then what's the point of getting married, of having children, of planning a future together?"
I want to be positive, I try to be positive, I try to do good things like drive less, bike more, and conserve energy. I want to learn permaculture, I want to live a sustainable, low-energy life off the grid. Things like that give me hope. And then I read stuff like this, from Jan Lundberg on Culture Change:
Quote:
Die off will kick in first in terms of riots and killings by armed marauders, and "the police and military will not be able to keep order more than a few days, if at all" [my statement in Congress]. Next will come starvation, and cannibalism can only get people so far -- especially with rampant disease and lack of clean water to drink. Starvation will take care of perhaps 95% (ninety-five per cent) of the petroleum-dependent populations in the U.S. and perhaps elsewhere in modern industrialized countries.
I feel like I'm losing hope and losing my sanity. My family whom I love very much lives 1000 miles away and now I think about how little I'll probably get to visit them before the crap hits the fan. Maybe it's best to just try to make peace with myself and know that my time on this earth is rapidly running out when it always felt that I had so much to look forward to. I've been considering buying a gun just to keep in the closet for protection (after all, I do live in Kentucky) and what scares me is not knowing if someday I will have to use it on someone else or on myself.
Unbelievable.......
Dude- Chill out a bit!!! Quit thinking about it- you're destroying yourself!
Take some time and listen to an opposing point of view....
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