Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3147 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: Re: Electric cars viable since late 1990s. Politics the prob
You'll find it difficult to actually obtain a FireFly Oasis battery. They aren't intended on selling them to the open market. It's more for trucking fleets. For the cost of the batteries it seems you'd be better off with lithium. Firefly's marketing materials make it seem as though their end goal is the EV market but they will not get there before companies like A123 sweep the floor with their sorry asses. They blew it just as much a AltairNano.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: Re: Electric cars viable since late 1990s. Politics the prob
mos6507 wrote:
You'll find it difficult to actually obtain a FireFly Oasis battery. They aren't intended on selling them to the open market. It's more for trucking fleets.
Do you have a source for that? Autoblog indicates otherwise.
mos6507 wrote:
For the cost of the batteries it seems you'd be better off with lithium. Firefly's marketing materials make it seem as though their end goal is the EV market but they will not get there before companies like A123 sweep the floor with their sorry asses. They blew it just as much a AltairNano.
It depends whether or not people want more energy per buck or dollar per buck. The way these are looking, they'll wipe the floor in terms of energy per buck unless A123's offerings drop to a small fraction of their current price. In terms of high power output, any LiFEPO4 is better, but that's the point of having "hybrid" packs. _________________
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3147 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:06 am Post subject: Re: Electric cars viable since late 1990s. Politics the prob
yesplease wrote:
mos6507 wrote:
You'll find it difficult to actually obtain a FireFly Oasis battery. They aren't intended on selling them to the open market. It's more for trucking fleets.
Do you have a source for that? Autoblog indicates otherwise.
It depends whether or not people want more energy per buck or dollar per buck. The way these are looking, they'll wipe the floor in terms of energy per buck unless A123's offerings drop to a small fraction of their current price. In terms of high power output, any LiFEPO4 is better, but that's the point of having "hybrid" packs.
What bugs me the msot is that these are just not the batteries their marketing materials hyped them to be. They are a transitional stopgap. Now, I'm not saying they couldn't be used in an EV. But I'd like to hear some reports from the field before I'd try getting ahold of them, which looks like if it is possible, will take some doing.
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Electric cars viable since late 1990s. Politics the prob
When I first saw the specs on the Firefly batteries a few months ago, I was very disappointed. I was hoping their claims would be accurate; roughly twice the specific capacity as the available lead acid per unit weight. Perhaps that claim is true at high rates of discharge, but not at typical EV rates of 1-2 hours...
With my current income, I am seriously considering a set of either Kokam Li Poly or Thundersky. I need to do more research though, and don't yet have regular access to a computer.
An interesting conversion possibility:
A Belktronix 500A controller/50A DC-DC convferter/charger/BMS setup is about $3,000. Use that with an ADC/Netgain 9" motor and other ancillary components, and a 144V conversion with 12 Universal Battery UB121100s could provide a < $7,000 setup(add to it the cost of the donor chassis) that could give ~60-80 miles range to 100% discharge at 60-65 mph in an electric Triumph Spitfire/GT6, Geo Metro, Honda CRX, Opel GT, Ford Festiva, ect.(pick any similarly lightweight/aerodynamic chassis) and allow 80+ mph top speed and 0-60 mph ~14 seconds, similar performance to stock for these cars. I won't be using that setup; too slow for my liking, but it would be a very good setup for a lot of people who don't have a huge amount of money, and at $4+/gallon, would have a payback time of under 3 years. The gas savings would give time to save up for a Li Ion/Li Poly pack for when the lead acid one wears out; 10 kWh of Kokam Li Poly is about $10,000 in low quantities and would give these cars about the same range as the previous lead acid pack at normal highway speeds(and more range gunning the accelerator) with lower per mile battery cost and 0-60 mph now dropped to about 10 seconds.
Of course, putting a 120V version of this setup in a Loremo AG with 10 Deka Intimidator 9A31 would allow ~100 miles range @ 60 mph(Or ~40 miles range at 120 mph), 0-60 mph < 9 seconds, and 120+ mph top speed. Loremo AG = ~$15,000(price may have gone up and is not available in the U.S. and is probably not yet available in Europe for that matter, but should be available there soon). So for you Europeans, this is your ticket to a sub $25,000 EV that performs well, can still go on the Autobahn, and can get good range driven sanely; at $10+/gallon in some places in Europe, it will save lots of money. _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Electric cars viable since late 1990s. Politics the prob
If I were going for the added expense of an AGM battery I'd spend a little more and get the Odyssey, especially when looking at any kind of acceleration performance and battery longevity. _________________ The shovel with a wheel - The Wovel.
http://wovel.com/
Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: Electric cars viable since late 1990s. Politics the prob
mos6507 wrote:
yesplease wrote:
mos6507 wrote:
You'll find it difficult to actually obtain a FireFly Oasis battery. They aren't intended on selling them to the open market. It's more for trucking fleets.
Do you have a source for that? Autoblog indicates otherwise.
Yup , and per their FAQ on their site, they won't sell individual batteries to the general public. However, it says nothing about them limiting pack sales to the public, so I don't see how/why they would complain about buying "X" batteries designated for use in trucks and slapping them in an EV instead.
mos6507 wrote:
yesplease wrote:
It depends whether or not people want more energy per buck or dollar per buck. The way these are looking, they'll wipe the floor in terms of energy per buck unless A123's offerings drop to a small fraction of their current price. In terms of high power output, any LiFEPO4 is better, but that's the point of having "hybrid" packs.
What bugs me the msot is that these are just not the batteries their marketing materials hyped them to be. They are a transitional stopgap. Now, I'm not saying they couldn't be used in an EV. But I'd like to hear some reports from the field before I'd try getting ahold of them, which looks like if it is possible, will take some doing.
I'd love to see some more info as well, but the current specs seem nice. ~1000+ cycles down to 10.5V is great, the only thing that'll determine if they're actually better is how well they take faster discharges and how much they cost per pack. _________________
All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page Previous1, 2, 3 ... 9, 10, 11
Page 11 of 11
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
