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List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

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List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 00:09:31

Amazing how history repeats itself, over and over again.

The Panic of 1819
The Panic of 1819 was the first major financial crisis in the United States, after the depression of the late 1780s (which led directly to the establishment of the dollar and, perhaps indirectly, to the calls for a Constitutional Convention).[1] It resulted in widespread foreclosures, bank failures, unemployment, and a slump in agriculture and manufacturing. It marked the end of the economic expansion that had followed the War of 1812. However, things would change for the US economy after the Second Bank of the United States was founded in 1816,[2] in response to the flood spread of bank notes across United States from private banks, due to inflation brought on by the debt following the war.

The Panic of 1837
The Panic of 1837 was a panic in the United States built on a speculative fever. The bubble burst on May 10, 1837 in New York City, when every bank stopped payment in specie (gold and silver coinage). The Panic was followed by a five-year depression, with the failure of banks and record high unemployment levels.

The Panic of 1857
The Panic of 1857 was a sudden downturn in the economy of the United States that occurred in 1857. A general recession first emerged late in 1856, but the successive failure of banks and businesses that characterized the panic began in mid-1857. As the overall economic downturn was brief, and the recovery strong, lasting impact was limited. However, more than 5,000 American businesses failed within a year, and unemployment was accompanied by protest meetings in urban areas. Eventually the panic and depression spread to Europe, South America and the Far East. No recovery was evident in the United States for a year and a half, and the full impact did not dissipate until the American Civil War.

The Panic of 1873
The Panic of 1873 was a severe nationwide economic depression in the United States that lasted until 1877. It was precipitated by the bankruptcy of the Philadelphia banking firm Jay Cooke and Company on September 18, 1873 along with the meltdown on May 9, 1873 of the Vienna Stock Exchange in Austria (the so-called Grunderkrach or “founders' crash”). It was one of a series of economic crises in the 19th and early 20th centuries.

The Panic of 1893
The Panic of 1893 was a serious economic depression in the United States that began in 1893. This panic was an extension of the Panic of 1873, and like that earlier crash, was caused by railroad overbuilding and shaky railroad financing which set off a series of bank failures. Compounding market overbuilding and a railroad bubble was a run on the gold supply and a policy of using both gold and silver metals as a peg for the US Dollar value. The Panic of 1893 was the worst economic crisis to hit the nation in its history to that point. To put this event in context, the period of economic crises known as the Long Depression (1873-1896) was worse than the Great Depression of the 1930s.

The Panic of 1901
The Panic of 1901 was a stock market crash on the New York Stock Exchange caused in part by struggles between E. H. Harriman, Jacob Schiff, and J. P. Morgan/James J. Hill for the financial control of the Northern Pacific Railroad. The stock cornering was orchestrated by James Stillman and William Rockefeller's First National City Bank financed with Standard Oil money. After reaching a compromise, the moguls formed the Northern Securities Company. As a result of the panic thousands of small investors were ruined.

The Panic of 1907
The Panic of 1907, also known as the 1907 Bankers' Panic, was a financial crisis in the United States. The stock market fell nearly 50% from its peak in 1906, the economy was in recession, and there were numerous runs on banks and trust companies. Its primary cause was a retraction of loans by some banks that began in New York City and soon spread across the nation, leading to the closings of banks and businesses. The 1907 panic was the fourth panic in 34 years.

The panic was sparked after an attempt to corner the market in a copper company collapsed in October. The failure of the corner prompted runs on banks that had loaned money for the scheme. This spread to affiliated banks and trusts, leading to the downfall of the Knickerbocker Trust Company, New York's third largest trust company, a week later. From Knickerbocker, the contagion spread throughout New York City trusts and then across the country, as regional banks pulled deposits out of New York, and people everywhere pulled their deposits out of regional banks.

At the time the United States had no central bank to provide liquidity. The panic may have been worse if not for the intervention of New York's most famous banker J.P. Morgan, who convinced other bankers in the city to provide a backstop for the crisis. By November the contagion stopped, and the next year, Senator Nelson W. Aldrich became chairman of a commission to investigate the panic and propose future solutions. The commission reports led directly to the creation of the Federal Reserve System.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby TheDude » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 01:26:31

Why stop there? Good topic, the replies will be very interesting.

Searching for 'severity of recessions United States' I found this interesting recent piece: Econbrowser: Synergies of the unpleasant kind: recessions, credit crunches and housing busts, analyzing how bad the current situation will be against past panics/recessions/depressions/etc.

These comparisons suggest that, while the current slowdown may share some features with the onsets of typical U.S. and OECD recession, it is worse in some dimensions, particularly in terms of speed of credit contraction, drop in residential investment and decline in house prices. We therefore also compare the developments in credit and housing markets in the United States to date to those in the past episodes of credit contractions and house price declines. Tables 2B and 3B showed that such credit contraction (crunch) and house price decline (bust) episodes on average lasted 6 (10) and 8 (18) quarters, respectively. If these statistics, based on a large number of episodes, provide any guidance, they suggest that the adjustments of credit and housing markets in the United States are only in the early stages relative to historical norms and might still take a long time. The earlier episodes suggest that the process of adjustment in the United States might persist in the coming months with further difficulties in credit markets and drops in house prices. This could bode consequently poor for the path of overall output, which, as we showed, falls more in recessions associated with credit crunches and house price busts than in recessions without such events.
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 01:38:57

^
Interesting. However, I noticed your link only examines recessions since 1960. It would be interesting to compare what's happening now with some of those 19th Century ones, but I suppose they didn't have good economic statistics back then.
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http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 03:02:10

OilFinder2 wrote:Amazing how history repeats itself, over and over again.

At the time the United States had no central bank to provide liquidity. The panic may have been worse if not for the intervention of New York's most famous banker J.P. Morgan, who convinced other bankers in the city to provide a backstop for the crisis. By November the contagion stopped, and the next year, Senator Nelson W. Aldrich became chairman of a commission to investigate the panic and propose future solutions. The commission reports led directly to the creation of the Federal Reserve System.


Not quite repeating itself. Note how in each successive crash, it became greater and affected more of the surrounding world. By the time of the 1929 crash, the economy was sufficiently Global for it to take down Europe and devolve it into a variety of warring fascist and communist nation-states.

There was at the time a Deep Pocket around to calm everyone down and provide a Backstop. That would be JP Morgan.

Now we have an economic crash that is TRULY global, and virtually instantaneous with the advent of computers and transactions performed at the speed of light. Where is the Deep Pocket Backstop in this crash?

You know, even if Warren Buffet and Bill Gates and T. Boone Pickens threw ALL their wealth into backstopping this crisis, they could not do it. There IS no Deep Pocket out there to save the economic system created by the Rothschilds and perpetuated by their spiritual heirs ever since.

What you have here is an economic black hole. We spent WAY past 7 years of savings here, we mortgaged the entire future of the planet on a dream of ever sustained growth, well into the lives of our grandchildren at the very least. What you see now is the biggest Bonfire of Paper Wealth in all of recorded History. THAT is what is the cause of Global Warming.

No this is NOT a repeat of history. It is a CULMINATION of the history of greed.

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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby americandream » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 03:24:21

ReverseEngineer wrote:
OilFinder2 wrote:Amazing how history repeats itself, over and over again.

At the time the United States had no central bank to provide liquidity. The panic may have been worse if not for the intervention of New York's most famous banker J.P. Morgan, who convinced other bankers in the city to provide a backstop for the crisis. By November the contagion stopped, and the next year, Senator Nelson W. Aldrich became chairman of a commission to investigate the panic and propose future solutions. The commission reports led directly to the creation of the Federal Reserve System.


Not quite repeating itself. Note how in each successive crash, it became greater and affected more of the surrounding world. By the time of the 1929 crash, the economy was sufficiently Global for it to take down Europe and devolve it into a variety of warring fascist and communist nation-states.

There was at the time a Deep Pocket around to calm everyone down and provide a Backstop. That would be JP Morgan.

Now we have an economic crash that is TRULY global, and virtually instantaneous with the advent of computers and transactions performed at the speed of light. Where is the Deep Pocket Backstop in this crash?

You know, even if Warren Buffet and Bill Gates and T. Boone Pickens threw ALL their wealth into backstopping this crisis, they could not do it. There IS no Deep Pocket out there to save the economic system created by the Rothschilds and perpetuated by their spiritual heirs ever since.

What you have here is an economic black hole. We spent WAY past 7 years of savings here, we mortgaged the entire future of the planet on a dream of ever sustained growth, well into the lives of our grandchildren at the very least. What you see now is the biggest Bonfire of Paper Wealth in all of recorded History. THAT is what is the cause of Global Warming.

No this is NOT a repeat of history. It is a CULMINATION of the history of greed.

Reverse Engineer


I disagree. This is a hemispheric crash limited to speculation in the west and I suspect the deep pockets will be the vast untapped surplus in the hugely underpaid Chinese, Indian and former communist labour forces.

I suspect the terminator of all crashes will be preceded by full expansion of a matured and speculative capitalism to all four corners of the globe.
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 05:18:40

americandream wrote:I disagree. This is a hemispheric crash limited to speculation in the west and I suspect the deep pockets will be the vast untapped surplus in the hugely underpaid Chinese, Indian and former communist labour forces.

I suspect the terminator of all crashes will be preceded by full expansion of a matured and speculative capitalism to all four corners of the globe.


This is clearly untrue. The crash is not hemispheric and limited to western economies. Why else would the Chinese be accusing the USA of unleashing Weapons of Mass Economic Destruction? They hold more US Debt than ANYONE. We cannot pay them back, moreover we cannot buy their trinkets anymore either. Their economy is in SAMBLES as well here.

You really think the Chinese could turn inward here and self sustain their economy on their own demand? That is ridiculous, it does not work as the actual cost to produce such products as automobiles utilizing the energy of oil becomes too expensive. The human labor is reduced in the equation of the thermodynaic power of oil, and mainly what the Chinese got is human labor. Problem would be FEEDING all that human labor. That economy crashes as well as our own here, its obvious to me at least. If it wasn't crashing, they would just lend us more money to keep things from spinning out of control. They ran OUT of money ALSO. Just the paperwork is not done yet.

The problems EVERY nation state has now are beyond belief, because as a world we sucked it dry, The Chinese are NOT a Deep Pocket that can come out of this standing any better than anyone else, they are going to suffer enormous loss of population from starvation and disease and internecine warfare, as we will also.

The Global Economic System is TOAST. Good grief, its OBVIOUS. I have trouble grasping how people here do not see this.

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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby MD » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 05:45:05

ReverseEngineer wrote:...
What you have here is an economic black hole. We spent WAY past 7 years of savings here, we mortgaged the entire future of the planet on a dream of ever sustained growth, well into the lives of our grandchildren at the very least. What you see now is the biggest Bonfire of Paper Wealth in all of recorded History. THAT is what is the cause of Global Warming.

No this is NOT a repeat of history. It is a CULMINATION of the history of greed.

Reverse Engineer


Damn skippy!

Quote of the year right there!

Funny as hell to boot! :lol:
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.

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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 06:07:02

MD wrote:Damn skippy!

Quote of the year right there!

Funny as hell to boot! :lol:


<Takes Bow> Thank you sir.

When I am not getting ticked off and petulant, I'm generally a pretty funny guy :-)

Tragedy and Comedy of course go together well, Shakespeare did it well. I am just trying to make sense of it all and reconcile it in my own mind. I would ask all to be patient with me when I lose my cool and go over the top. These are very tough times.

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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby TheDude » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 07:59:01

ReverseEngineer wrote:Why else would the Chinese be accusing the USA of unleashing Weapons of Mass Economic Destruction? They hold more US Debt than ANYONE.


Actually the Japanese lead the pack, then the PRC, UK, "Oil Exporters," Brazil. Wiki: Foreign ownership.
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 08:19:13

TheDude wrote:Actually the Japanese lead the pack, then the PRC, UK, "Oil Exporters," Brazil. Wiki: Foreign ownership.


So who holds most of the Japanese Debt? The Japanese? LOL.

Let us not quibble about such things. Can we just agree the WORLD is BANKRUPT?

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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby TheDude » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 08:56:06

ReverseEngineer wrote:
TheDude wrote:Actually the Japanese lead the pack, then the PRC, UK, "Oil Exporters," Brazil. Wiki: Foreign ownership.


So who holds most of the Japanese Debt? The Japanese? LOL.

Let us not quibble about such things. Can we just agree the WORLD is BANKRUPT?

Reverse Engineer


You got it, RE. More I try to grok this financial Versailles room full of mirrors the more I want to curl up with a David Icke book and conclude the whole show's being run by hostile invaders from another dimension... :lol: hence the avatar.

Hey, is that smoke coming out the Reichstag?

Bush Administration Seeks "Dictatorial Power" (Mish)

Bloomberg is reporting Treasury Seeks Authority to Buy Mortgages Unchecked by Courts.

The Bush administration sought unchecked power from Congress to buy $700 billion in bad mortgage investments from financial companies in what would be an unprecedented government intrusion into the markets.

"He's asking for a huge amount of power," said Nouriel Roubini, an economist at New York University. "He's saying, `Trust me, I'm going to do it right if you give me absolute control.' This is not a monarchy."

Paulson is seeking an expansion of federal influence over markets that hasn't been seen since the Great Depression, said Charles Geisst, author of "100 Years of Wall Street" and a finance professor at Manhattan College in New York.

"This is going to be a big package because it's a big problem," Bush said following a meeting with Colombian President Alvaro Uribe at the White House. "We need to get this done quickly, and the cleaner the better."


The Bush administration seeks "dictatorial power unreviewable by the third branch of government, the courts, to try to resolve the crisis," said Frank Razzano, a former assistant chief trial attorney at the Securities and Exchange Commission now at Pepper Hamilton LLP in Washington. "We are taking a huge leap of faith."


I look forward to trains running on time.

A story I heard once from a Bosnian: Stalin's train was slightly late, so he did what the Man of Steel usually did in such instances: executed everyone on board. The Bos said "As punctual as Stalin's train" is a common saying in Eastern Europe...
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby mattduke » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 15:00:12

Rothbard's "Panic of 1819" is a classic read. Another one is "History of Money And Banking In the United States". Yes, the bankers just keep doing this to us.

http://www.mises.org/rothbard/panic1819.pdf
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby mattduke » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 15:06:03

ReverseEngineer wrote:Note how in each successive crash, it became greater and affected more of the surrounding world.

In the old days where banks had gold in the vault, a single inflating bank would induce a boom (and inevitable bust) in the region where it setup operations. Fortunately, competition between banks forced a bank to limit it's inflation (otherwise it would lose it's gold to the more conservative banks). This is the principle under which the "free banking" system of Scotland enjoyed it's historic soundness. In order to inflate uniformly the banks must cartelize under a central bank that coordinates their inflation in unison. Of course the resulting booms and busts are vastly more damaging.
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby smiley » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 15:12:53

Why limit here

The panic of 1630
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 19:54:19

ReverseEngineer wrote:Not quite repeating itself. Note how in each successive crash, it became greater and affected more of the surrounding world. By the time of the 1929 crash, the economy was sufficiently Global for it to take down Europe and devolve it into a variety of warring fascist and communist nation-states.

Not necessarily true. From the Panic of 1819:
The Panic was also partially due to international events. European demand for American foodstuffs was increased because the Napoleonic Wars decimated agriculture in Europe. War and revolution in the New World destroyed the supply line of precious metals from Mexico and Peru to Europe. Without the base of the international money supply, poor Europeans and governments hoarded all the available specie. This caused American bankers and businessmen to start issuing false banknotes and expand credit. American bankers, who had little experience with corporate charters, promissory notes, bills of exchange, or stocks and bonds, encouraged the speculated boom during the first years of the market revolution. By the end of 1819, the bank would call these loans.

ReverseEngineer wrote:Now we have an economic crash that is TRULY global, and virtually instantaneous with the advent of computers and transactions performed at the speed of light. Where is the Deep Pocket Backstop in this crash?

The Federal Reserve, of course. Which, after all, was created in response to the Panic of 1907.
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http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 21 Sep 2008, 20:01:22

OilFinder2 wrote:The Federal Reserve, of course. Which, after all, was created in response to the Panic of 1907.


The Federal Reserve is not a Deep Pocket. The Federal Reserve is BANKRUPT.

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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sat 04 Oct 2008, 00:46:28

--> LINK <--

From the issue dated October 17, 2008
The Real Great Depression
The depression of 1929 is the wrong model for the current economic crisis

By SCOTT REYNOLDS NELSON

As a historian who works on the 19th century, I have been reading my newspaper with a considerable sense of dread. While many commentators on the recent mortgage and banking crisis have drawn parallels to the Great Depression of 1929, that comparison is not particularly apt. Two years ago, I began research on the Panic of 1873, an event of some interest to my colleagues in American business and labor history but probably unknown to everyone else. But as I turn the crank on the microfilm reader, I have been hearing weird echoes of recent events.

[...]
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http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby JustaGirl » Sat 04 Oct 2008, 02:45:44

So it will be like the 1873 panic which was worse than the 1929 depression. Sweet! :(

Oilfinder, have you converted to a doomer?
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby patience » Sat 04 Oct 2008, 07:50:50

Others have made the comparisons, where in 1929, Britain was the debtor nation and the US was the manufacturing nation, compared to today with the US being the debtor and Chindia being the manufacturer. Different analogy, but a similiar conclusion where the debtor sinks into oblivion and the manufacturer grows successsfully.

So who had the bright idea that it was a good thing to become a "service economy"? Ecomonic fundamentals always win, and currently, the US isn't producing nearly enough to pay for their consumption. Consumption, as an old medical term for TB, was a debilitating, terminal disease. Perhaps an apt analogy here.

A friend and business associate of mine reccomended investing in "productive assets" for our personal use. He owns an internet provider business, but is deep into a personal sideline as a market gardener as a personal backstop. I agree with him. We believe that the future of US business is in the small entrepreneur, from cottage industry up through modest scale manufacturing, as the US begins to look more like post WWII Japan, and Chindia looks more like post WWII US.

But we both expect an economic version of Hiroshima in the US first. Then it will be a case of bootstrapping ourselves up out of the carnage, maybe something like Japan did, starting with making cheap toys out of trash. At least Japan had the advantage of cheap oil, but our lot will be tougher, I'm thinking.
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Re: List of US financial panics, 1819 - 1907

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sat 04 Oct 2008, 20:42:03

JustaGirl wrote:So it will be like the 1873 panic which was worse than the 1929 depression. Sweet! :(

Oilfinder, have you converted to a doomer?

I don't consider the existence of recessions or even depressions to be indicative of "doom." They have always existed, and always will. But they also always pass.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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