Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: Getting a J.D.?
Hi everyone,
I just found this forum the other day. I had not realized how imminent the situation was and it's causing me to rethink my plans.
I'm a recent college grad. I had been considering going back to get a J.D., but not I'm not so sure. Assuming I didn't get scholarships, I would be putting myself into some serious debt for a job whose prospects would probably decline sharply post-peak.
Are there any specialty areas of law you think would still be useful/valuable post-peak?
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
Law enforcement or Executioner? You could apply for a job with the newly formed Pan-American security forces.
But seriously I think things are going to proceed a lot slower than you might expect. But who knows. Depending on how long it takes to get your degree you could end up with 5-10 years of gainful employment...
On the bright side if the serious economic collapse and or other doom scenarios develop you won't have to worry about that debt...
-G _________________ All right, you primitive screw-heads, listen up!
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
Tyler_JC wrote:
Sure, you might have found an eco-village somewhere, but wouldn't you have prefered to make a little money and get an education in the meantime?
Nope, I already plundered it...
-G (note location)
If you are aware of any currently unplundered eco-villages please provide coordinates and detail the nature and quantity of supplies available. We will commence with plundering on a first come-first serve basis. _________________ All right, you primitive screw-heads, listen up!
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
Tyler_JC wrote:
Bankruptcy attorney...
However, I need to see some numbers to calculate your opportunity cost and do a little risk/benefit analysis.
These numbers include but are not limited to:
Your current salary, salary expectations with the degree, expected debt as a result of getting the degree, interest rate levels on that debt, payment schedule of that debt, your current assets and liabilities (house payments? car payments?), and I would also be interested to see if you are living alone or have a significant other/children that might pose a threat to your financial stablity (or if your significant other is gainfully employed he/she might be able to help pay some of the debt costs).
However, I would not put all of that information online on a website like this.
So just making a blind guess, I suggest getting the degree. That is my advice to most people when faced with a question like this. Getting a degree like that will put you one step ahead of the pack when it comes to layoff time.
There were those who believed that oil had peaked in the year 2000. If you had believed them, you possibly wouldn't have gotten that undergraduate degree to begin with!
Sure, you might have found an eco-village somewhere, but wouldn't you have prefered to make a little money and get an education in the meantime?
This makes sense to me, thanks for the advice.
In all seriousness though, what might be a relaitvely secure area of the law to specialize in?
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
pearlygates wrote:
Hi everyone,
I just found this forum the other day. I had not realized how imminent the situation was and it's causing me to rethink my plans.
I'm a recent college grad. I had been considering going back to get a J.D., but not I'm not so sure. Assuming I didn't get scholarships, I would be putting myself into some serious debt for a job whose prospects would probably decline sharply post-peak.
Are there any specialty areas of law you think would still be useful/valuable post-peak?
bankruptcy law.
One of thee reasons I started LATOC was I wanted to get a job in alternative energy as I figured that would be expanding while the legal market would be contracting with the exception of bankruptcy law.
Assummig you'll be going into substantial amounts of debt, I think getting a JD would be the economic equivalent of putting a gun both to your foot and to your head. Maybe if you're lucky you just won't be able to walk.
But if you go through with it let us know how the Blackwater contractors treat you when they come to haul you off to a Halliburton built faith-based debtors workcamp. =)
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
Tyler_JC wrote:
Bankruptcy attorney...
However, I need to see some numbers to calculate your opportunity cost and do a little risk/benefit analysis.
These numbers include but are not limited to:
Your current salary, salary expectations with the degree, expected debt as a result of getting the degree, interest rate levels on that debt, payment schedule of that debt, your current assets and liabilities (house payments? car payments?), and I would also be interested to see if you are living alone or have a significant other/children that might pose a threat to your financial stablity (or if your significant other is gainfully employed he/she might be able to help pay some of the debt costs).
However, I would not put all of that information online on a website like this.
So just making a blind guess, I suggest getting the degree. That is my advice to most people when faced with a question like this. Getting a degree like that will put you one step ahead of the pack when it comes to layoff time.
There were those who believed that oil had peaked in the year 2000. If you had believed them, you possibly wouldn't have gotten that undergraduate degree to begin with!
Sure, you might have found an eco-village somewhere, but wouldn't you have prefered to make a little money and get an education in the meantime?
Tyler,
Before I comment on the veracity of your advice, I would like to know the following:
1. What is your age?
2. What education do you have?
3. Roughly much debt did go into to get that education?
4. Approximately how much do you make per year and from what occupation?
5. How much debt are you in currently?
If I remember correctly, you are 18 or so and your family is pretty well of. Which lead me to believe you really have no idea what you're talking about on this matter.
But I could be wrong.
Is Seahorse around? He's practicing in law in the South somewhere.
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
pearlygates wrote:
Hi everyone,
I just found this forum the other day. I had not realized how imminent the situation was and it's causing me to rethink my plans.
I'm a recent college grad. I had been considering going back to get a J.D., but not I'm not so sure. Assuming I didn't get scholarships, I would be putting myself into some serious debt for a job whose prospects would probably decline sharply post-peak.
Are there any specialty areas of law you think would still be useful/valuable post-peak?
Peak Oil aside for a moment, what is your reason for wanting to become an attorney?
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 726 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
J.D. in the USA? We already have over 40 percent of the world lawyers. Can't see how they will all have a job as the economy struggles (short term yes, long term no). A JD and patent law may make it. How about a mechanical engineer focusing on wind technology?
PS I biased, I'm an MD and, well, you can guess my take on lawyers.
Joined: Sep 02, 2004 Posts: 577 Location: Not tellin' anymore
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
MattSavinar wrote:
Is Seahorse around? He's practicing in law in the South somewhere.
Best,
Matt
Matt -
He's into Civil Litigation and Criminal Law (not meanin' to steal his thunder 'n all).
Oddly I've considered the law dawg routine myself, just don't have the money for it - sunk too much into the IT knowledge base. But Child Advocacy especially appeals after my dealings with the local DHS.
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
MattSavinar wrote:
Peak Oil aside for a moment, what is your reason for wanting to become an attorney?
The opportunities that my current degree (urban studies) affords me are essentially nil.
I enjoyed the law classes I took in undergrad and think I have the mind for it. My brother is a lawyer and is on the type of path that I would like to be on (a long-term, well-paying career one).
In response to Tyler's earlier questions, my current salary is n/a because I'm unemployed. I have about $6500 in undergrad debt which would prob accumulate to around $100K after the JD (unless I get scholarship). Single, no kids, no car, house or any other debts/obligations.
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
pearlygates wrote:
MattSavinar wrote:
Peak Oil aside for a moment, what is your reason for wanting to become an attorney?
The opportunities that my current degree (urban studies) affords me are essentially nil.
I enjoyed the law classes I took in undergrad and think I have the mind for it. My brother is a lawyer and is on the type of path that I would like to be on (a long-term, well-paying career one).
In response to Tyler's earlier questions, my current salary is n/a because I'm unemployed. I have about $6500 in undergrad debt which would prob accumulate to around $100K after the JD (unless I get scholarship). Single, no kids, no car, house or any other debts/obligations.
Dude,
You now: 23 years old, not much debt, unemployed probably soon to be underemployed or marginally employed
You in 4 years after law school: 27 years old with a J.D. and (possibly) a bar card, $125,000 in debt, unemployed or possibly underemployed.
(I say $125,000 because these things always cost more than you think. For instance, you're probably not accounting for the $10,000-to-30,000 you'll need to prep for the bar, depending on whether you take it once or twice.)
You in 4 years in the workforce and frugal/smart living: 27 years old, no debt, 6 months in savings
Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
Pearlygates, I'm not in a JD program, but I am several years into a Ph.D. program in geography. I'm up to my eyeballs in student loan debt. If I had it to do all over again, I'd DEFINITELY skip it. Almost certainly the worst mistake of my life. As much as I love geography, the debt just isn't it worth it. My only hope is hyperinflation.
As for lawyers, I think there will be plenty of them panhandling on the street when the next Depression hits. I'd go for something a bit more useful, organic agriculture, solar power engineer, botanist, carpentry....anything but another overeducated, underskilled future inmate of the Matt Savinar Debtors Workcamp. Best way to get an education and a useful skill is an apprenticeship. You get paid while you learn. No student loans involved.
gnm wrote:
If you are aware of any currently unplundered eco-villages please provide coordinates and detail the nature and quantity of supplies available. We will commence with plundering on a first come-first serve basis.
I believe PO.com member Bytesmiths is part of a cult, er, "eco-village" up in BC (Salt Spring Island). Appears to be populated by pacifist cowards, and thanks to Canadian firearm laws, they are almost certainly completely unarmed. Easy pickings. Plus it's readily accessible by water--always wanted to do the Viking raid thing. I've got the rifles and ammo if you've got the boat.
Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2196 Location: Arkansas
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
My dad once overheard me talking to someone about going to college to get a better job, and my dad said, very disappointedly, that's all you learned going to college (meaning, you go to college to learn for the sake of learning, not to get a better job).
All that being said, just follow your heart and do whatever it is you want to do, be it lawyer, doctor, doesn't matter. Life's not worth living if you live in fear and don't do what you want to do. Never live or make decisions or not live out of fear. As the Taoist say, fear is nothing more than an illusion. Most people spend their time worrying about things which never happen, and in the meantime, life passes them by. Seize the moment as they say. That's all your guaranteed.
As for what type of law, you don't have to decide that now. If you want to be a lawyer, you first have to finish lawschool. Then, after you do that and pass the bar, you decide what you want to do. In the meantime, you will have a better idea based on the classes that interested you what you want to do. However, certain things never change. There will always be a need for criminal defense and prosecutors, always a need for divorce lawyers, bankruptcy lawyers, and real estate issues. The good thing about being a lawyer is, one can do it out of their home if they have to, with very little overhead.
You will probably never get rich being a lawyer, but that's true in most professions. Getting rich is an American fallacy for the most part, so, center yourself, be realistic, and remember that happiness is the absence of desire.
Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Getting a J.D.?
I think this country is oversaturated with lawyers. The big problem with being a lawyer now is you either need to have connections or be tops in your graduating class for the best paying jobs.
I know a few lawyers who don't practice at all due to the competition. If you have to go ahead with it I think the demand for criminal and bankrupcy law will soar much faster than the population growth in the future but the big money to be made is in the personal injury/damage area.
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You could apply for a job with the newly formed Pan-American security forces. 
