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Revi
Fusion
Joined: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 3235
Location: Maine
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 Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:25 am Post subject: Propane shortage in Maine |
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This past week we've been experiencing a propane shortage in Maine. It's due to a railroad strike in Canada, but is an interesting window into what happens when a fuel source is in demand and there isn't enough to go around. The fuel dealers are already rationing the supply to those who need it for heating. Commercial customers may not be able to get it, as a car wash is shut down until there is more supply. They had a commercial telling people that they'd be shut down until the supply resumes. Here's an article on the shortage:
http://www.wlbz2.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=52734
I talked to some oil dealers and they don't know when the supply will resume. Here's Governor Baldacci's response to the situation:
http://mobile.maine.gov/e/news/?sid=29904
I think that this could be a model for what happens when we run low on fuel oil or electricity. Rationing will occur, and quickly. That's not a bad thing, unless your business is shut down by it. At least Maine is getting a handle on it. |
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Revi
Fusion
Joined: Apr 25, 2005
Posts: 3235
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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Things are getting serious! Borealis Breads (which makes excellent bread) may have to close along with Cafe Miranda! These are just a few of the businesses affected. Everyone uses some propane, even if they have a wood fired bread oven.
http://www.camden.villagesoup.com/Government/story.cfm?storyID=87138 |
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Starvid
Fission
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2779
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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Propane?
I don't think anyone use propane in this entire country. Maybe in motorhomes or remote mountain cottages, but why else use it?
Baking bread with propane? Hven't you guys discovered electricity yet?
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PeakOiler
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Nov 18, 2004
Posts: 1082
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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Propane is widely used in this country, Starvid, since many live in remote locations, (exurbia), and may not have access to natural gas lines.
Electricity may be very expensive for those folks in New England compared to propane or natural gas. Revi, what is the electric rate there in US$/kW-hr?
Looks like vehicles using LP or LPG may not be a good idea there.
Hank Hill may need to change jobs. |
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pup55
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Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 3681
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:45 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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This calls for some graphs.
This is propane production for the last couple of years. Note that the production is fairly constant.
This is the propane inventory situation per the EIA, Note that the inventory has big swings depending on seasonality. The time of the lowest inventory in the US is the late April early May time frame, when everybody goes out and fills up their barbecue bottles.
Here is the inventory situation in PADD-1A which is the New England region. Note that there has been a big drawdown the last couple of weeks. Typically, there is a drawdown in May but the last couple of years has seen a drawdown in January as well.
So I am ready to agree that for the moment, the problem is distribution. But, if the cold goes on for a couple more weeks up there, you are going to see more widespread shortages as the stocks draw down earlier than normal.
| Code: | | Baking bread with propane |
In fact, propane is the heat of choice for high end ranges, restaurants, etc. because of its clean burning characteristics and low residual emissions. This is the very thing that makes it desirable for the gazillion backyard barbecues in the nation. According to the source below, 80% of the families in the US own a propane grill.
Also, there is some propane use as a motor fuel. Cars can be fairly easily tuned to accept propane. Also, in the industrial areas, propane is a common fuel for forklifts and other industrial equipment that have to run indoors, because of low emissions.
Use Propane dot com |
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Starvid
Fission
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2779
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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| PeakOiler wrote: | Propane is widely used in this country, Starvid, since many live in remote locations, (exurbia), and may not have access to natural gas lines.
Electricity may be very expensive for those folks in New England compared to propane or natural gas. Revi, what is the electric rate there in US$/kW-hr?
Looks like vehicles using LP or LPG may not be a good idea there.
Hank Hill may need to change jobs. |
Interesting.
Many people live in remote places here too, at least 4/5 of the population live in the southern 1/3 of the country. which means the rest of the cuntry is pretty empty. And no one use natural gas for anything, except in a few cities in the deep south.
This map is pretty telling, especially as none of the proposed pipelines (dotted lines) in Sweden will be built.
No, we use dirt cheap and perfectly clean electricity for everything. Or at least it was dirt cheap before deregulation! 
edit: Many interesting and educating posts in this thread! Thanks everyone. 
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Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis. |
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Gideon
Light Sweet Crude
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Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Posts: 1142
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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Montequest is a certified asshole.
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Chief of Asshole Certification
Last edited by Gideon on Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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MacG
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Jun 04, 2005
Posts: 1176
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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| Gideon wrote: | But please, Mr. Swedish man, please don't describe your electricity as "perfectly clean". Save the national pride for the big parade.
Your electricty is very dirty - it just happens to be less dirty than most others. |
In addition we actually don't *have* any NG here either. Pretty easy to avoid using it if it's not even there to begin with...
But this Swedish "national pride" thing is pretty funny. In a way we are almost as isolated as North Korea here, and a lot of people know very little about conditions in the rest of the world. And they used to tout this thing about "The Best Country in the World" in schools and everywhere. A lot of people here actually believe it. |
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Zardoz
Expert
Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 6388
Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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| Starvid wrote: | | ...perfectly clean electricity... |
Oh, please...
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Starvid
Fission
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2779
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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| Gideon wrote: | You use "perfectly clean" electricity? Does it bubble up from the ground or grow on trees? Do birds carry it in?
Because if it doesn't, then you have to generate it.
And a quick check tells me that Sweden's energy distribution is 40% oil, 40% alleged renewables, and 20% nuclear.
I disagree that the renewables are all renewables, by the way.
But please, Mr. Swedish man, please don't describe your electricity as "perfectly clean". Save the national pride for the big parade.
Your electricty is very dirty - it just happens to be less dirty than most others. |
Well, your facts are wrong then.
Electricity here is a bit less than half hydro, a bit less than half nuclear and the remaining is CHP fired with wood and trash and a tiny bit of natural gas.
In spite of this, biomass provide more energy (not electricity) than nuclear and hydro combined.
Sure, we do use oil too, but not much for heating or power. And I never claimed we didn't have cars.
ps. I like this graph.
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Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Last edited by Starvid on Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:12 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Starvid
Fission
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2779
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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| MacG wrote: | | And they used to tout this thing about "The Best Country in the World" in schools and everywhere. A lot of people here actually believe it. |
Haha, and those who don't would likely say either Norway, Finland or Denmark instead! 
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Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis. |
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Gideon
Light Sweet Crude
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Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Posts: 1142
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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Montequest is a certified asshole.
_________________
Chief of Asshole Certification
Last edited by Gideon on Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Starvid
Fission
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2779
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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| Gideon wrote: | And as for your graph, what I got from it is that the greeks are well endowed, and the Swedes? Well not so much.
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Ok, you did make me laugh there.
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Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis. |
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grabby
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Nov 08, 2005
Posts: 1328
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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Not enough propane for the bartbecues, no worries, not enough meat for the barbecues anyway, corn is scarce everything will work out.
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TorrKing
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Nov 24, 2005
Posts: 743
Location: The ever shrinking wilds of Norway
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Propane shortage in Maine |
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You live in the city don't you Starvid? I hate hydroelectrics. They are all over the place where I come from. They are bad for the wild reindeer, the trout and everything else. Clean my ass.
When law and order has gone to hell, I am going to blow up those dams. (Don't know how I am going to get hold of the explosives though.)
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