Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: I'm building an electric car
It's not quite electric yet as I'm still gathering money/parts, and doing mostly bodywork. This car used to be a lot worse last year, and its current paintjob was slopped on to protect it from rust, but it will be British Racing Green pretty soon. I couldn't bear to see it propped up on cinder blocks, so the car is currenly running as a gasoline powered car, waiting for me to dump more cash into it. Next order of business is to purchase or mold/create, and install the fiberglass LeMans style bonnet, doorskins, rockers, hatch, bumpers, wheel well covers, underbelly and inside grill cover, and install lexan windows and a new windshield. Currently inside the bonnet lurks a fearsome inline 6 cylinder, waiting to be replaced with an electric motor. That engine bay used to be empty, but not having much money as of late means it would just sit, so I had to do something with it!
The exterior is in pretty good shape. Mostly rust free, the body is the item I was worried about most. I checked this car with a magnet very closely when I got it and the body was great, although ever since it's been in my garage, the floorboards have gone from adequate to almost non-existant. The parking brake recently broke, so I hold the car in place with rocks, one in the front and one in the rear. Also, it has no plates(ones it had expired and were removed), but that hasn't kept me from driving it on occassion! I love how it can smoke its tires and make a savage growl not too different from a Harley Davidson motorcycle, although it faintly sounds like a 60s Ferrari to an extent as well. Nothing beats sneaking up on ignorant SUV and minivan drivers who cannot see it because it's too low to the ground, then suddenly slamming the pedal to the floor right next to them and shooting out in front of them at double the speed limit! Scares the crap out of them! I'll miss that noise when I put an electric motor in her.
Interior is crap. Doesn't matter: I'm stripping the hell out of it anyway. Make note of all the room in the back under the rear hatch. The back is going to be filled with batteries.
Now under the hood. You can see all 2.5 Liters and 210 horsepower of this bored TR6 beauty(Not stock). In an 1800 pound car. This will be taken out, to make way for the electric motor and the controller, along with a few batteries. Although you can't see it, installed is also a TR6 non-overdrive transmission and drive axel to handle the additional torque and power the electric motor will dish out to it once installed.
I'm going to paint her dark British Racing Green after I take that babyshit yellow off. It needed that paint on it though, otherwise rust would have seeped in killed the poor thing.
For those interested, here's a cost breakdown of how much it will have cost when finished:
-WarP 9'' series DC motor x1 $1,395
-Optima D750 YT battery x25 $2,500
-Godzilla Controller(72-300V DC, 1,000 amp max) x1 $2,495
-PFC 20 Charger x1 $1,500
-Todd DC-DC converter x1 $400
-Steel for battery racks $50
-Battery Cable $50
-EV200AAANA contactors x1 $75
-Feraz Shawmut A50QS400-4 fuse x2 $109
-Curtis Potbox(To control acceleration) x1 $75
-E-Meter x1 $235
-Solid-State Ceramic Heater Core x1 $75
-Adaptor Plate x1 $1000(I will be machining myself, so don't count cost)
-Miscallaneous components(Heat shrink tubing, tools, ect.) $500
-Leaf springs from Renegade Hybrids $300 (increase GVWR)
-Rudman Battery Regulators x25(Unassembled) $250
-x1 1969 Triumph GT6 Sports Car and some restoration = $1,200
-restoration and components costs, what will be spent later: $1,500 (half for restoration, half for fiberglass parts)
Total = $12,709. My own labor is free, so not tallied.
I have some of the parts bought from this list, not all. I'll need a few grand to buy the rest of the parts needed to get it going on electric power plus about 500 more hours of work, for anyone curious. Does not include price of all tools used. This will become an 80-100 mile range per charge EV that can out perform Porsche Boxters and Audi TTs with ease, while needing no gasoline. As it is now, it's simply a moderately decrepit road demon that gets about 30 miles per gallon and can still embarass most cars on the road. Can't wait to give it the upgrade it deserves.
Here's a simulated torque curve of the electric motor's performance from a little spreadsheet I made, which coincides with other calculations and estimates I made by hand and with other programs. Max motor voltage would be limited by controller to 216 volts and max motor current limited by controller to 1,000 amperes:
Perfectly flat torque up to about 4,000 rpm. What a beautiful power curve. So much of an advantage that this little 170 horsepower setup will perform like Nissan's 287 horsepower 350Z. Just compare torque curves:
I'd kill a 350Z off the line for sure, and even though I'd have only 170-ish horsepower, the guy driving the far more powerful car would have to really work to catch up.
Stock this car has a dry weight of 1,793 pounds. The drag coefficient of a stock GT6 with factory paint and no rust is about .32, and I hope to get that down to about .25-.27. Weight as an electric car will be about 2,400-2,500 pounds including driver.
The gas engine, which will be removed, is 402 pounds, and its ancillary components, like carbeurators, fuel lines, empty gas tank ect. weigh about 90 pounds.
So far I plan the following in order to cut down weight:
a) Replace the stock seats with lighter seats from a Mazda Miata or some such(-50 pounds after replacement seats are put back in)
b) Remove all carpets(-15 lbs)
c) Remove all sound deadener(-25 pounds)
d) Remove wood panel dash, replace with custom leather
dash(-5 pounds)
e) Fiberglass bumpers(-15 pounds)
f) Fiberglass bonnet, doorskins, lexan windows and other such stuff for weight reduction.(-200 pounds)
So minus 110 to 135 pounds to the car for a glider weight of around 1,000 pounds or so.
BUT, I figured out how to fit 25 Optima Yellowtop batteries into this car, at 45 pounds each. That's a 1,125 pound battery pack. The Netgain WarP 9'' electric motor going in it will weigh 160 pounds, the controller 23 pounds, charger 16 pounds, and about 100 pounds of miscallaneous parts like battery racks, rubber motor mount, battery cable, contactors, EMeter, shunts, ect.
That brings the car to a very porky 2,430 or so pounds. Plus I weigh 130 or so. Gross vehicle weight rating is 2,350 pounds, so I won't be too far over it. I may have to install leaf springs in order to handle the additional weight so the car doesn't sag, and I may need to add a second master cylinder to keep braking distance in high performance sports car territory, which may suffer due to the dramatic increase in weight.
As far as the appearance and dynamics of the car, I intend to do the following modifications in an effort to maximize efficiency and top speed by minimizing drag:
Full fiberglass underbelly, fiberglass LeMans style bonnet, removing the chrome strips and vents, fiberglass bumpers, fiberglass doorskins, fiberglass hatch, lexan windows, top half of rear wheel wells covered, she will be lowered an inch closer to the ground with a racing suspension, a roll bar will be installed, her brakes will be machined down to eliminate brake drag, her wheel bearings will be replaced with lower friction bearings, she will have aluminum alloy LeMans style rims, the driver's side mirror will be replaced with a more aerodynamic mirror, her engine compartment under the hood will be sealed from the outside world by covering the grille from the inside, her rain gutters will be shaved off, she will have shaved door handles installed, the radio antenna will be removed from the front and replaced with a less drag inducing antenna mounted on the roof, and a single center-mounted rally style windshield wiper replacing the two she has. Her transmission and drive axel will have Redline MTL synthetic oil placed in them. I plan to use Invitica GLR low rolling resistance tires. Alignment will be adjusted to 0 degrees camber in order to further cut rolling drag. Wheel bearings will also be replaced as wheel bearing friction is a significant source of drag. The flywheel will also be machined down in an effort to reduce rotational inertia, which adds to energy consumed during acceleration, this inertia resulting in slower acceelration times and more energy consumption. An electric motor doesn't need to stay revving at a stop due to it's high low-end torque, thus the flywheel does not need to retain any angular momentum like a gas car does, so it can handle hacing 10 pounds shaved from it and since it will be electric it won't stall.
Overall, this will give me 80-100 miles range pussyfooting it and taking it easy at 65-70 miles per hour on the highway, or one third to one half that range with a lead foot going 90 or so and with drag racing everybody in sight or terrorizing local law enforcement. Range at say, 140 mph, would only be about 10-15 miles. However, if I could find a place to maintain a steady 30 mph without stopping or being a nuisance to traffic, I could go 200 miles per charge, but I'd be hard pressed to ever find such a place.
The performance will be quite good. 0-60 will be around the high 5 second to low 6 second range as shown by computer simulation, and top speed between 130 and 150 miles per hour depending on the rim size I go with, the limiting factor being motor redline and not horsepower(the aerodynamic mods will help drastically).
Cost would be MUCH lower than a gasoline powered car, even with cost of batteries factored in. Let me demonstrate:
$2500 for 60,000 miles life is a battery pack cost of $.0417 per mile. At $.08 per kWh achieivng 150 wh/mile efficiency with a 92% charger efficiency and 70% battery efficiency, with $.005 per mile maintenance, total cost to operate comes out to $.0653 per mile, which combined is less than the gasoline cost for a gasoline powered Honda Civic getting 30 miles per gallon with gas at $2 a gallon. Plus the Civic also needs oil changes, tune ups, servicing, emissions tests, and other engine maintenance, while the electric car has no such issues other than tires/brakes and stuff like that. The electric car? Replace the batteries when they wear out, and change the motor brushes every 20,000-150,000 miles(Depending on how you abuse them in racing), which is a $15 dollar 20 minute operation you can do yourself in your own garage. The electric motor will last over 500,000 miles.
So, with my 100 miles range, assuming I drive 30 miles each day(my daily commute in both directions, 15 miles each way), would yield a 30% discharge, or a battery pack life of 60,000 miles before the battery pack has about 80% of its original rated capacity. A smaller battery pack of the same chemistry would mean for that same trip a deeper discharge is had, the cost per mile goes up. Too deep a discharge could kill your battery pack(although you can use computer software to prevent the operator of the vehicle from being able to do this). At shallow discharges like 20-40%, shelf life becomes the limiting factor, instead of cycle life, and Optimas have a shelf life of 6-7 years.
With a sealed lead acid battery like an Optima, you will see 2,500 cycles to 20% discharge, 2,000 cycles to 30% discharge, 800 cycles to 50% dicharge, 250 cycles to 80% discharge, and only 100 cycles to 100% discharge if properly cared for. After specified number of cycles, the battery is not 'dead', but will only deliver about 80% of its rated capacity, so it could last longer even.
Charge time will be about 2 hours from a 240V high amp outlet like you'd see at a camp ground, 8 hours from a 110 volt. Of if I bring a spare battery pack to the race track loaded up in a van or pickup and use it to dump charge my pack, it could be charged in 20 minutes. Quick charging electric vehicles is possible and technologically viable, we just haven't developed fast charging infrastructure and instead blew our much too high taxes in Iraq for oil. But our electric infrastructure is developed enough to be practical for regional travel. You can't find a gas station in every home or office like you can an electric outlet, even if it may be slow!
Later on when I am knowledgable enough to build my own battery management system, I'll be upgrading to a Lithium Ion battery pack that will give me 250+ miles range per charge @ 70 mph speeds, and weigh a full 700 pounds less than the lead acid battery pack. The car would then weigh less as an EV than it does stock as a gas car, and performance would jump, with acceleration dropping to high 4 second 0-60 times and low 13s in the 1/4 mile drag race. Cost per mile for the batteries would be about the same, with a 250,000 mile battery life for lithium ions. If I do all my own labor, this will be a $12,000 battery pack, using labtop batteries that are not mass produced for any sort of automotive application. Would automotive sized Li Ion batteries be mass produced, instead of having to rely on labtop batteries, a pack could cost as little as $6k, but if a bullfrog had wings it wouldn't bump its ass, either.
As for appearance, I'm going to take after the following cars on mine:
This thing will be looking like a $100,000 exotic by the time I get done with it. The LeMans bonnet will make it look a bit like a 1960s Ferrari. Below is a LeMans Spitfire, basically a GT6 built from a convertable Spitfire, with a LeMans bonnet like what I will be getting along with the type of rims I will be getting:
Below is how mine will be painted. Solid dark British Racing Green, no racing logos or anything like that, and it will have all the aerodynamic mods and no chrome unlike the car pictured:
For the interior, I'm going to strip it and make it look like the following interior from an electric VW Kharmen Ghia, only instead of a red theme, a British Racing Green theme:
I'm also going to install a nice sound system. 400-600 watts or so, nothing that will add too much weight.
It will end up looking like it cost 10 times more than it did, cost less to run than a slow as molasses gas powered Honda Civic, be drivable during the peak crisis, and last but not least, if the peak crisis gets bad enough to where electricity is no longer generated:
I'll have a portable wind generator to keep it charged with when it's parked along with a garage-mounted solar array. Never going to have to worry about fuel. Plus the car has a nice space behind the seat to store guns in if needed.
She will be named "Greenpeace", I am going to drag race her while people still can get gas, and she will be used as a tool to speak out against the current status quo, in order to let people know that the peak crisis can be averted, but it won't because of corporate and government greed and bearucratic incompetence, and that they better get off their asses now and do something or their lifestyles or possibly lives will be over! _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
lexan windows are a poor chioce as they will become abraded and "foggy" in short time (2-3 years).
keep glass unless you need THICK lexan pullet proofing etc.
nice project car, but I'm bit worried that your floor-boards disintagrated...how'd that happen? _________________ With Love to all, and Malice to none.
"A people is conquered not when they lose a war, but when they adopt the song and customs of the enemy"
-Chacham S
lexan windows are a poor chioce as they will become abraded and "foggy" in short time (2-3 years).
keep glass unless you need THICK lexan pullet proofing etc.
Bulletproofing is one of the reasons I want lexan, that and a weight reduction. The fog isn't too much of a worry. The glass windshiled will stay glass though.
Quote:
nice project car, but I'm bit worried that your floor-boards disintagrated...how'd that happen?
No paint on the floor, plus humidity seeped in. Doesn't take long on a Triumph!
The good news is that the floorboards aren't important to the car's safety in this particular model, and it's very easy/inconsequential to weld in new ones. If it were the bulkhead, *then* I'd worry, as that would be something I could not repair myself, is paramount to the structural integrity and safety of the vehicle, and would be horrendously expensive to fix. But the bulkhead's still in perfect condition. _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
Once you master this conversion business, you should turn pro. I wouldn't mind an electric Smart Roadster. They have been discontinued by Daimler, so should be falling in value. And they only weigh 790 kg, so quite light to begin with. _________________ "The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel
I wouldn't mind an electric Smart Roadster. They have been discontinued by Daimler, so should be falling in value. And they only weigh 790 kg, so quite light to begin with.
And if you remove the transmission and free up space in the transmission tunnel and go direct drive, you lower maintenance even more and free up a shitload of battery room you otherwise wouldn't have in such a car. They are also decent in aerodynamics. Forget the roadster, I like the coupe version of the Smart sportscar. It's like a poorman's Lotus Elise. _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 2722 Location: Vancouver Island
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 10:55 pm Post subject:
why did they kill the smart roadster? It's not available over hear and I would have seriously thought about one if it was here.
Back on topic though, your's is definitely a cool project. I've been wanting to try my hand at building a heavy hybrid conversion to a big old 4x4 but don't have the extra cash at the moment.
Make sure you keep us up to date. _________________ shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
Joined: Jun 06, 2005 Posts: 16 Location: Louisville, Kentucky USA
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:00 am Post subject:
Toecutter,
I really like your plans for converting the Triumph into an electric car. I've been doing a little reading up on EVs myself. I agree that if we are going to keep the private automobile in any way then EVs are the way to go, or perhaps diesel/electric plug-in hybrids. Even still, I think that private automobile usage should be greatly decreased and some real money should be invested in public transit, preferably light rail. That said, I have been a car guy my whole life so the Peak Oil thing has kind of knocked me on my ass in that respect and made me question my life-long love of cars. Of course being able to continue my car hobby is the least of my worries with Peak Oil breathing down our neck. Good thing my Autoweek subscription just expired.
I'm mainly into driving and fixing old Saabs. I've been kicking around the idea of eventually converting my 1970 Saab 96 into an EV:
Right now there's no way I could afford to do it but may be interesting at some point down the road provided things don't get too bad too fast. I'm thinking that an electric set-up like the type used to convert a VW Beetle may work. The layout of the Saab is the same, longitudally mounted engine with transaxle behind it, albeit front engine/front drive:
People have converted the Saab 96 to an EV before. I've been trying to find photos on the internet of one that was built around 10 years ago and dubbed "Sparky". The advantages that is has are light weight (2000 lbs), robust construction, and ample room for batteries. There has been discussion lately on the VSaab internet mailing list about electric conversions, and someone suggested these two set-ups designed for the Beetle:
'E-Volks'highway kit _________________ "Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows"
-Leonard Cohen
I'd be wary of E-Volk's claims. Go ahead and plug their numbers into a Puekert's calculator and you will find they are exagerrating quite a bit.
Your Saab 96 would make a great conversion. Lots of battery room, light, very aerodynamic. Coefficient drag in the .30 region, like the Saab 92. It could be lowered much further.
I'm glad you know about Sparky. It was a Tour De Sol entry repeatedly through the mid 90s.
At the other extreme (sponsorship-wise) is Christen Johansen, an
architect in Manhattan who converted a Saab 96 V-4 to a 96 V system called "Sparky", used as a weekend runabout. He considers it a "detached hybrid"; he claims that for vacations and such he will tow this EV Saab behind his Saab 900 Turbo, and then use the EV for short hops. He used a Saab because he was thoroughly familiar with the car and likes the body style. Advanced DC 9.1 inch motor, Curtis PCM controller. $4500 went into the restoration of the car (which was a basket case) and $6500 into the EV components. Took 1.5 years, most weekends, finishing up 3 weeks ago. Christen quotes 60 miles/charge highway, 30 city (which sounds backwards to me, but that is what he said.)
NESEA American Tour de Sol: Team Profile - `Sparky 2'
Immediately after interviewing the people with `Sparky' (number 39) from Virginia, I ran into Christen Johansen with `Sparky 2' (number 3 from New York City. `Sparky 2' is run by a team known as "Wooster's Charge" from the Wooster School in Danbury CT. They were also in the 1995 NESEA Tour when we went from Waterbury CT to Portland ME. Christen was a member of the Wooster Class of '68, and so he loans the car to them for the race. Why `2' you ask? Because their race application form arrived later than that for the Virginia team.
The vehicle is a conversion of a 1972 Saab 96, picked because of "my family's need for commuter transportation and fond memories of my first car. The conversion ... to electric power was a practical means to [avoid] maintaining a twenty-five-year-old engine." Originally it had a 96 Volt battery pack. That was extended to 120 Volts in 1995 to get the additional range needed for the race (at the expensive of the back seat), and this year a new Curtis PMC 1231C controller increases the power and efficiency. An Advanced DC FB1-4001A motor connects to the Saab 4 speed manual transmission (with the free wheel position; remember that?). It weighs in at 3080 pounds.
I'm discovering that the EV world is highly interconnected. At one time Christen had planned to carry the extra batteries needed to go from 96 to 120 Volts in a trailer that would roll behind the car. "The more I thought about it and that shift weight in the back, the less attractive that idea became to me. I decided to put the extra batteries on board. However, I sold that trailer to Fred Whitridge of the Blue Sky Club (who entered his converted VW Cabrolet in the 1995 NESEA Tour) and that's what he ran last year. He did OK with that, but we came in just one ahead of him. Maybe that was the difference." Christen still thinks he is better off keeping everything on board and keeping the added weight low and between the wheels.
I like the 96, but I think it could have used a horsepower boost. It was so low, like a Citroen 2CV. But then again, not everyone likes high horsepower like I do. The 96 and the 2CV were sort of counter to the gas guzzling Detroit iron of the time. Although there would be no shame in making a very fast sleeper EV out of one for the stoplights and drag strip, that would take additional money.
If your goal is a cheap highway capable conversion, you could do that just fine. as an added bonus, flooded lead acid batteries are about 1/2 the cost per mile of sealed lead acid batteries. An $800 pack would last 20,000-25,000 miles or 5 years, whichever comes first, before it has only 80% of its original rated capaicty. The downsife with flooded lead acid batteries, as opposed to the valve regulated sealed lead acid I will be using, is that floodeds leak acid and need routine watering every month, flooded must be positioned upright, and they must be placed in accessable locations so you can get to them. If the pack is sized properly, however, floodeds could give you about 15-20% more range per pound over sealed. As a general rule of thumb, if your max range will be consumed in less than an hour of driving, you'll get batter range per pound with sealed, if yuor max range will be used in over an hour, you'll get better range with flooded. Sealed will give you lots of horsepower, while flooded will not. floodeds will give you about 40 peak horsepower for a 1200 pound pack, while 1200 pounds of Optimas or Orbitals sealed lead acid would give you over 400 horsepower, only under the condition your motor and controller can make use of it! Needless to say, my controller is my limiting factor for my performance I will get. _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
Joined: Nov 21, 2004 Posts: 579 Location: ~170ft/lbs@0rpm (on my bike)
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:49 am Post subject:
Have you thought about using a 400cc diesel engine to extend the range? They can output ~9hp peak and plenty of torque through the entire rev range, while only weighing ~100lbs and using a measly 204g/hpH of diesel fuel. Ideally one could use biodiesel made from wvo (I've heard the straight wvo isn't a good idea with DI engines). For an additional ~150lbs your range would be greatly increased... Ideally you could go off of battery power for short trips and use the diesel's charging capabilities only when appropriate. _________________ "Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. "
Very cool. I really want to convert one of my Volkswagen 412's to electric now! If you don't know what a 412 is, they were the very last generation of the classic VW aircooled cars designed (411/412), produced from 1968-1974. I think it would be perfect to convert, as the car is actually quite large for an aircooled VW, but still relatively light. The front "trunk" is cavernous and designed to carry moderately large payloads. In fact, even though it is a rear-engined car, the front struts, springs, ball joints etc.. are drastically more heavy-duty than most front-drive cars today -- looking at them by themselves, they look like something from a light truck!
Roop, I experienced the same thing. Cars have been a lifelong passion of mine from about the same time I could walk. Way before I knew about peak oil, though, I was already thinking about how stupidly we use them. I had already moved close to my job in a small midwestern town and started walking or biking to work. I already was sick of car-choked metroplex traffic and ridiculous suburban development. Still, finding out about peak oil was like getting hit in the head with a baseball bat. Since I am naturally a pessimistic person, it lets my mind roam the halls of every doomsday scenario I can imagine, and being a creative person, I have a darn good imagination. I am positive of one thing, no matter how optimistic of a mood I am in, we won't be using cars in the future like we do now, no damn way. But barring complete destruction of the world through nuclear war, or complete anarchy, in other doom and gloom scenarios people in certain pockets at least will figure out how to salvage some of the hundres of millions of vehicles available to use as transport- either powered by electricity, or things like wood gasification- fuel/energy that can be found/generated locally. I guess I am conceding to the gun enthusiasts' logic here, cars aren't instrinsically "bad", they are just a machine (not better or worse than any other machine humans have created), but the way that many humans have made use of them to shape the world can be terrible.
Last edited by ubercrap on Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
Have you thought about using a 400cc diesel engine to extend the range? They can output ~9hp peak and plenty of torque through the entire rev range, while only weighing ~100lbs and using a measly 204g/hpH of diesel fuel. Ideally one could use biodiesel made from wvo (I've heard the straight wvo isn't a good idea with DI engines). For an additional ~150lbs your range would be greatly increased... Ideally you could go off of battery power for short trips and use the diesel's charging capabilities only when appropriate.
I have thought of it, but 9 hp, in the case that the generator would have 100% efficiency(which won't happen), would be enough to keep my car going at a steady 55 mph. But no conversion of energy into batteries is 100% efficient, more like 75% efficient. So basically, a 9 hp generator could keep me humming along at a steady 45-50 mph.
Not enough. I've had in mind at least a 20 horsepower generator, something that could keep me going at 70+ mph constant. But I decided I'd rather same that room for extra batteries instead, and wait until I'm educated enough to build my lithium batery pack, which would give me all the range I could need, 250+ miles, like a gas car.
Quote:
I really want to convert one of my Volkswagen 412's to electric now!
What are your goals if you do such a thing? Do you want cheap, do you want completely maintenance free(ie. no battery watering), do you want fast, or any combination of the above whenever it can be applied?
I'm not familiar with the 412. Any idea of it's weight and aerodynamic drag coefficient? Dimensions(so frontal area can be estimated)? Weight will affect energy consumption in acceleration and low speeds the most, while aerodynamics will affect highway speed consumption. Higher consumption means less range.
I chose my Triumph after extensive research. I wanted a sports car that was available and not too rare, affordable(< $4,000 for something without significant rust), easy to work on, relatively aerodynamic(< .45 cD), small frontal area(< 19 feet square), high gross vehicle weight rating compared to initial curb weight, and under 2,000 pounds. My choices were narrowed to the Opel GT, Triumph Spitfire/GT6, Toyota MR2, and MGB GT after all was said and done. The Triumph was in my opinion the best loking of them all, and was the best in all the characteristics I found. Kit cars that can be placed on VW bug chassis also fit my needs, but I found this Triumph for a steal. _________________ The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson
Joined: Nov 21, 2004 Posts: 579 Location: ~170ft/lbs@0rpm (on my bike)
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:52 pm Post subject:
The_Toecutter wrote:
I have thought of it, but 9 hp, in the case that the generator would have 100% efficiency(which won't happen), would be enough to keep my car going at a steady 55 mph. But no conversion of energy into batteries is 100% efficient, more like 75% efficient. So basically, a 9 hp generator could keep me humming along at a steady 45-50 mph.
70mph, you're getting greedy! OTOH you seem to desire a sporty machine so right off the bat, so yeah...
While the 9hp diesel might not allow you to travel based soley on your diesel fuel capacity (well, at 45mph it would), it would effective increase you range at 55mph, by quite a bit. Your battery packs would only need to provide a couple horse power instead of around 10, which should more than quadruple your range, all for an extra 150lbs.
I'm planing to put together a motorcycle powered by a 200cc diesel engine. The frame will be based of the leaning trike design for recumbent bicycles. It'll be faired, and if constructed properly will hopefully get ~600mpg @ 55mph (I'm hoping to design and gear it s.t. unfaired it can sustain 55mph using ~2-3hp. When faired the required power will hopefully be ~1-2hp @ 55mph, using ~16-32 grams of diesel per mile. The key will be gearing and the aerodynamics of the shell, weight won't be a problem since I doubt it'll touch 300lbs wet, even with a secondary electric motor system I've been thinking about... _________________ "Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. "
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from New York City. `Sparky 2' is run by a team known as "Wooster's Charge" from the Wooster School in Danbury CT. They were also in the 1995 NESEA Tour when we went from Waterbury CT to Portland ME. Christen was a member of the Wooster Class of '68, and so he loans the car to them for the race. Why `2' you ask? Because their race application form arrived later than that for the Virginia team.
