UK Climate Policy: Rebound Effects

lorenzo · Fission Joined: Jan 01, 2005 Posts: 2174

'Rebound Effects' Threaten Success of UK Climate Policy

diemos · Tar Sands Joined: Sep 23, 2005 Posts: 64

This is why any action taken to combat global warming is futile. Every ounce of fossil fuels that can be burned will be burned. The only open questions are who will burn them and for what.

joewp

That was quite a doomerish post there, Lorenzo.

Are you coming over to the dark side at last? Smile

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Joe P. United Political Debate
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb

eastbay

I was thinking the same thing. That's some serious 10.0.

Yeah, the pointlessness of conservation efforts. That's what I'm talking about. Light it up!

We've dropped our carbon footprint to about as low as possible... for now, anyhow. To save money. Simplify things too. Calmer.
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Rincewind

As with all analyses of this type the underlying assumptions are critical. Jevon's paradox is based on the observation that energy efficiency makes energy (relatively) cheaper. Therefore promoting further consumption.

The question I am always asking myself is in a post peak energy world (i.e. declining net energy available to the economy) will this assumption continue to hold?

I don't think so. So my question to the authors of this study is did they analyse the rebound effect in an economic environment where the real cost of energy is consistently increasing?

Cheers Rincewind

IanC

I think this is why we need to tax the Hell out of fossil fuel use. People only understand pocketbook issues when it comes to changing behavior. It also shows why this will never happen: it is political suicide to tell the populace that the only way to save ourselves long-term is to reduce consumption. This would put our whole capitalist, consumerist culture on its head and it way too revolutionary to ever be considered.

I was just reading in my local paper about all the different ways to reduce one's carbon footprint. You know what, nearly all of them involved buying something: an energy-efficient home, appliance, light bulb, car, etc. We are pathological in our imaginary thinking that we can purchase our way out of any problem. It is going to hit the sheeple like a ton of bricks that their standard of living is going through the floor, NEVER to improve.

-Ian

Nano

Eli

Colorado-Valley · Intermediate Crude Joined: Aug 16, 2004 Posts: 731

Why can't we just have a big die-off and not have to worry about this kind of stuff?

Zardoz

essex

Energy use is increasing despite the escalating price. As more and more become aware that we are all on a hiding to nothing more and more will take that " last " overseas trip ( something a colleague of mine is about to do - to Africa in fact where hardly any can afford fossil fuels ), add on to the house etc etc

thor · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 21, 2005 Posts: 451

This is a profound problem, hence the utter futility of our efforts so it seems. Perhaps it is better just to continue the way we do now in order to keep energy use predictable. Energy efficiency will only lead to increased energy expenditure.

lorenzo · Fission Joined: Jan 01, 2005 Posts: 2174

lorenzo · Fission Joined: Jan 01, 2005 Posts: 2174

By the way, the report contains a nice section on the history of the analysis of what they call "the rebound effect". It contains a good discussion of Jevons' intuitive ideas, which form the basis of all later analyses.

So the terminology may be different, but actually its the same thing.

In short, you PO lot were right to point at that Jevons Paradox from the start. At last it's being taken seriously by credible researchers too. Way to go!
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The Beginning is Near!

lorenzo · Fission Joined: Jan 01, 2005 Posts: 2174