growing apple trees from seed

gt1370a · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 02, 2005 Posts: 347

While hiking near the Appalachian trail in Virginia, I came across some apples trees which appeared to be very old, and maybe wild. The apples are small, red, fairly sweet and a little tart. Quite juicy too, might make a good sweet hard cider in sufficient quantities. But anyway, a friend suggested that it might be a rare type, since some apples that were grown around here from colonial days are not common and not grown elsewhere in the US. I thought it would be cool to try and grow some from seed. What is the best way to go about this? I went ahead and put a half-dozen seeds in seed pods, thinking they might sprout and grow indoors over the winter. I also put a couple of apple cores in dirt in outdoor pots which would more closely simulate how they might naturally reproduce, assuming it will get cold this winter and they will sprout next spring. Also I was thinking about just storing some of the seeds in a zip-lock bag in the fridge until spring, and try to grow them indoors in pods next year. Any of you tried something like this? What works, what doesn't?

smallpoxgirl · Moderator Joined: Nov 08, 2004 Posts: 5734

Apple trees don't grow true from seed. If you plant apple seeds, mostly what you get is crab apple trees. What you need is a cutting from the tree that you can graft onto root stock.
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bromius · Heavy Crude Joined: May 26, 2008 Posts: 106

I've been wondering about this subject a bit lately myself. If growing apple trees by seed results in mostly crab apples fruit-wise, how do they come up with new varieties of apple? Cutting would all be genetically identical to the parent. When seeking a new variety would they cross pollinate the parents with desirable characteristics, plant a bunch of seeds and hope that a few among those grew into apple trees that produced desirable apples, then clone from those trees?

Also, could you use rooting hormone to get a cutting from a desirable tree to sprout roots directly? Never tried it with a tree. I know its possible w/ anything in the Salicaceae family. As for others, not as sure.

edit: I was just thinking, I wonder if the genes that result in food apples are recessive. That would explain why crap apples are the most common result.

As a supposed tree nerd, I'm gonna have to look this up now, just to maintain my self respect! I'll be curious to what you folks have to say though.

Blacksmith · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: growing apple trees from seed

Wid apple trees have (spines), these are small branches about one to two inches long growing from a main branches and the apples are generally quite tart and not very sweet. It was commonm in the past to paint seeds in the hope that some of the seeds would sprout good apples which then were grafted on to wild roots.

What you may have stumbled across was an abandoned orchard or tree from an old species or you may have got a good apple tree grown from seed. In the spring go back and get a cutting and graft it onto one of the trees you will grow from seed.
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smallpoxgirl · Moderator Joined: Nov 08, 2004 Posts: 5734

WisJim · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: growing apple trees from seed

I usually put them in a baggie with some damp peat moss in the refrigerator, and they usually start to sprout by spring. When I see the tips of sprouts, I plant them in pots in potting soil, and then outside in a garden spout sometime during the summer. Let them grow with more attention for a season and then transplant somewhere in the orchard, or graft another variety onto them and transplant the next year. BUT they will not produce the kind of apple that they came from, to do that you need to graft a scion (cutting) from the original tree onto a healthy rootstock, as SPG mentioned.
But, it is fun to grow fruit trees from seed, and about one in a thousand is worth keeping, and one in ten thousand might be worth growing more of.

mos6507 · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: Re: growing apple trees from seed

satjeet · Heavy Crude Joined: Jul 15, 2004 Posts: 126

Read Michael Pollan. He has several books on food. One details the life of John Chapman - aka Johnny Appleseed. Johnny grew apples from seeds in nurserys and then - by canoe - transplanted them all over the Ohio River Valley. They were used to make cider. The cider would become hard (yipee!) and when frozen produce AppleJack. Also vinegar. All very useful on the frontier.

So says Pollan. Who knows?? If true - the take-away is that nature is far more productive than we modern humans can imagine.

EdlinUser · Coal Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 2

Apples do not grow true from seed but sometimes a seed makes a great apple. All current varieties started from one seed.

Apples will take 6-10 years to produce fruit from seed.

Apples are more pest/disease susceptible than pears.

Pears will take 6-10 years to produce fruit from seed.
Pears from 'Old Homestead' will produce fruit similar to the parent. OH pears are hard as rocks in November but ripen slowly into the spring, a great storage food!

Pears from seedlings were the preferred fruit tree in 1800s northern US homesteads.
Peaches from seedlings were the preferred fruit tree in the south.

Seedling peaches come into bearing at 4-6 years.

Fun to play with but if you are preparing, I suggest 2-3 year old trees from a good nursery. They only cost $15-$20 and come into bearing YEARS sooner.

Final advice: If you want to save a wild apple tree you can take cuttings and graft them to another apple tree but an easier way is to take off shoots from the tree. Cut off and dig up a few shoots that are growing around the trunk from below the soil level. Plant them in pots and keep from direct sun for a few weeks. Fruit in a few years will be just like the parent.

Cashmere · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Posts: 1971

Not sure about the accuracy of the posts above me.

Here's my input:

I have the fortune of having several dozen wild apple trees on my property. They all make apples, and every tree's apple is unique in flavor. Sizes vary as well. About 1/4 produce apples that are too tart or winey flavored to eat straight. About 1/2 produce apples that are decent. About 1/4 produce apples that are excellent, and could be sold in stores.

By all means, plant seeds, but just keep in mind that you're going to get a genetic lottery back out.

Each seed has the genetic components of 2 apple tree parents (some have 3 parents!), so, just like human kids, each seed will produce an apple tree with unique apple traits.

Trademarked apples come from various original sources.

For example, Red Delicious apples are all grafted progeny of a an apple tree that was growing on a fence line in Iowa.

Can you imagine? Farmer picks wild apple and loves it and that is the start of the Red delicious apple.

Every time I pick an apple from a newly discovered tree, I think, "this might be the next Red Delicious apple discovery".

Anyway, that's one way to get new varieties - just a random wild tree.

The second way is through regular old mutation. Typically, for example, you'll have a grafted tree that mutates and has a branch with a mutated variety on it. If they notice it, sample and like the new branch product, then they can begin cutting and grafting from that branch.

As a final note, Crab apples are not the same thing as wild apples.

Crab Apples have extremely branching and spiny branches and apples that tend to be very small and very bitter and a yellowy green color. They don't get too large - maybe 15 feet, and maybe 8 inches in diameter.

Regular apples are less branching, have less spiny branches, and apples that can be golf ball sized to baseball size, depending on the tree. The apples are not typically very bitter, and the tree will grow to 25 or 30 feet and have a large trunk, maybe a foot or foot and a half.

Have fun.
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Madpaddy · Expert Joined: Jun 25, 2004 Posts: 2087

My son planted apple tree seeds a year ago. 1 of them sprouted and the tree is now about 4 feet high. A locql gardening expert told me the tree has only a 1 in 500 chance of producing good quality eating apples but will produce fruit suitable for baking. The original seed was from an eating apple...

I dunno.
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wisconsin_cur · Moderator Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2992

Madpaddy · Expert Joined: Jun 25, 2004 Posts: 2087

Thanks Cur,

Makes sense that they would discourage people from planting seeds.

Incidentally, I have 3 old apple trees in my garden - got nothing from them this year but tonnes last year. Its all cyclical I suppose.
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wisconsin_cur · Moderator Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2992

Blacksmith · Last edited by Blacksmith on Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:50 am; edited 1 time in total

I once made crab apple wine, the juice had so much pectin in it you had to (1) add a additive to surpress the pectin and (2) mix about 50% apple juice to the starter.
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