"They cut it here and then pulled it right out of the wall," real estate
broker Marc Charney said, pointing to broken plaster near a
wrecked baseboard heating system in the 2,774-sq-ft home in
Brockton, Massachusetts, a working-class city of 94,304 people.
Similar stories are unfolding nationwide as a glut of home
foreclosures coincides with record highs in the price of copper and
other metals.
Real estate brokers and local authorities say once-proud homes
coast-to-coast are being stripped for copper, aluminum, and brass
by thieves. Much of it ends up with scrap metal traders who say
nearly all copper gets shipped overseas, much of it to China and India.
In areas hit hardest by foreclosures, such as the Slavic Village
neighborhood of Cleveland, Ohio, copper and other metals used in
plumbing, heating systems and telephone lines are now more
valuable than some homes.
"We're in an incredibly unfortunate time where the nonferrous
metals commodities market for scrap is at an all-time high. Houses
are getting stripped pretty quickly once they go through the
foreclosure process," Cleveland city councilor Tony Brancatelli said.
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3453 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:59 am Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
Yes, some of the newer homes around here are being built with PVC because it has no scrap value so their is not the same fear of theft. If Thermal Depolymerization ever takes off that may change too
You know inside your house there is no reason you couldn't substitute steel wire for electric service and plastic pipes for water and sewer, but people are reluctant to change from what they are used too. _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4280 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
I've notice most new stuff is built with PEX.
These houses full of 1 inch copper? I don't get it. 10feet of 3/4inch is $20 (new)...how many feet are in these houses? These morons would be better off siphoning gas out of cars.
The land the house sits on is worth more then anything. Put a huge garden there and make a bundle. _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
From what I've read, it's not just copper and other metals, it's EVERYTHING; including the kitchen sink, bathroom sink, toilets, bathtubs, cabinets, electrical fixtures, windows, doors, even wood floors. Some of the houses end up so gutted, they are structurally deficient and need to be torn down.
It goes something like this; a truck pulls up to a house with a sign on the side reading something like "home improvements." The gag is that these guys are doing renovations. They then gut the house taking everything, including that which is nailed down. All kinds of brand new building materials are recycled back into the housing market. _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
Tanada wrote:
Yes, some of the newer homes around here are being built with
PVC because it has no scrap value so their is not the same fear of
theft. If Thermal Depolymerization ever takes off that may change too
Interesting point...
Tanada wrote:
You know inside your house there is no reason you couldn't
substitute steel wire for electric service and plastic pipes for
water and sewer, but people are reluctant to change from what
they are used too.
It is possible to substitute copper wire with other metals, like
aluminum (something scrappers are going for). But I don't know
about steel as a good substitute. Though I suppose tubes full of a
thick liquid conduction fluid or paste might work as a substitute.
Quote:
Copper building wire requires less insulation and smaller
conduits than aluminum because aluminum, with its lower
conductivity, must be larger in diameter than copper to carry the
same current. This is why more copper wire can fit in a given
conduit, compared to aluminum. This greater “wire fill” is a special
advantage when a system is rewired or expanded. Another
advantage is that copper oxide also conducts electricity. So
connections and terminations will not overheat and do not require
the use of oxide-inhibiting compounds. In addition, copper also
provides superior thermal conductivity (60% better than aluminum),
which saves energy and accelerates heat dissipation. This property
is also especially helpful at terminations and connections.
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
CPVC is the best option for DIY homeowner - like gluing kids toys.
Plumbers hate CPVC and like copper because sweating a copper joint looks like something that requires a skilled tradesman and solvent gluing plastic pipes looks like something any 10 year old could handle.
PEX is nice to install originally, but not so nice to do repairs on.
Between solvent welder CPVC and crimped PEX, I'll take CPVC for long term stability.
Steel for wiring? Huh? How about 1-it will rust/rot, 2-it is not a good conductor.
I think copper for pipes is obsolete.
I don't think that's the case for wiring, unless somebody wants to point me to a page that discusses why steel is just as good.
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
Some people have pointed out how often threads here end up with discussions of cannibalism. I think those discussions, in the literal sense are a bit overblown, not to mention disgusting.
But this is the kind of cannibalism we are going to see more and more. Now it is restricted to abandoned houses. Soon it will be occupied houses and buildings. Given the end destination, you could say that this is a case of the old colonies of the empire striking back. Our infrastructure is being raped by the same global capitalist/corporatist system that helped European and American pirates, vandals, imperialists rape the old colonies of their mineral and other resources.
So do we just follow the old advice to rape victims: "Lie back and enjoy it"?
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3357 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
Curbing copper thieves by Brian Johnson Staff Writer
The Minnesota Mechanical Contractors Association has introduced copper theft prevention kits, including water-soluble stamps for pipes.
A local trade association aims to help contractors prevent copper theft, recover stolen items
It was a serious enough problem when theft was limited to construction sites and scrap yards. But when thieves started tearing gas pipes out of private homes in search of a quick buck, the public took notice and concern turned to outrage.
“Now you are talking about a life-and-death situation,” said Berg, marketing director for the Minnesota Mechanical Contractors Association.
Berg believes he has found a good way to help combat those crimes. He’s the driving force behind the MMCA’s new “Stamp Out Crime” program, which offers a simple way for contractors literally to leave their mark on copper pipes or other copper materials that might be stolen. …
Of the 49 contractors who responded to a recent MMCA survey, 62.5 percent said they had been victims of theft. Losses, which include stolen equipment as well materials, ranged from $1,500 to $40,000. …
Minnesota
Copper Thieves Add Oil Burners, Hot Water Heaters To Their "Must Have" List In One Massacusetts Region
In Haverhill, Massachusetts, The Eagle Tribune reports:
-The region has been hit by a wave of precious metal thefts as criminals attempt to cash in on a sellers market for the material at scrap yards. Recently, thieves have targeted foreclosed homes with valuable copper plumbing and other metals inside.
-In Lawrence, three men were arrested Jan. 31 as they attempted to flee from a vacant three-decker in a pickup truck laden with two oil burners, three hot water heaters and assorted copper pipes, police said. In a separate incident Jan. 29, copper pipes were reported stolen during a break into a vacant home at [...] in Lawrence, and earlier in January, another 10 copper pipes were stolen from a vacant home [...]. Vacant property break-ins most often occur as thieves scavenge for copper and other valuables that get left behind. In Haverhill, a real estate agent discovered a break and theft of copper pipes at a vacant Hillside Avenue home in foreclosure. The thieves punched holes in the walls on all three floors to get at the pipes. ...
Massachusetts
Copper thieves plundering Treasure Island
Jan 31, 2008 6:00 AM (71 days ago) by John Upton, The Examiner
SAN FRANCISCO (Map, News) - Plans to reopen a World War II-era restaurant and bar that treated winers and diners to splendid panoramic views from Treasure Island of The City and Bay were delayed after much of its copper electrical wiring was stolen.
Copper theft has become a national problem, fueled largely by a rise in price for the common construction metal, a result of China’s building boom. Last week, police in San Jose and Santa Clara announced that they had arrested 140 people on copper-theft charges following a yearlong sting operation.
Abandoned Navy buildings on Treasure Island have been hit hard by copper thieves over the last three to four years, according to Treasure Island Development Authority spokeswoman Marianne Thompson. …
California _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
Ferretlover wrote:
Copper Thieves Add Oil Burners, Hot Water Heaters To Their "Must Have" List In One Massacusetts Region
Nice links. Hey, on a positive note, we can expect that some of those
abandoned water heaters and scrap we see littering the country side
and river banks will start getting picked up!
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4280 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
Taking the windows! I'd love to catch that. Next they'll be peeling the shingles and tar paper off the roof. Digging up the septic and well.
People will do anything for a delicious $5 Subway sandwich _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3357 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
steam_cannon wrote:
Ferretlover wrote:
Copper Thieves Add Oil Burners, Hot Water Heaters To Their "Must Have" List In One Massacusetts Region
Nice links. Hey, on a positive note, we can expect that some of those
abandoned water heaters and scrap we see littering the country side and river banks will start getting picked up!
Anything to keep them busy!
One morning, last year, my DH went to put a few things in the trash (on pick up day), and noticed that the recycling he had put out the night before was gone.
It seems there is a elderly man who lives somewhere around here (has a tricycle with a wagon) that steals recycling to cash in the pop cans, etc!
One man's trash is another man's treasure! _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
It's all fiction in Silicon Valley, where prices keep going up thanks to government bailouts. _________________ People first, then things, then dollars.
There will be enslavement & cannibalism.
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
dohboi wrote:
Given the end destination, you could say that this is a case of the old colonies of the empire striking back. Our infrastructure is being raped by the same global capitalist/corporatist system that helped European and American pirates, vandals, imperialists rape the old colonies of their mineral and other resources.
So do we just follow the old advice to rape victims: "Lie back and enjoy it"?
It would be interesting to assess where recycled copper scrap is going. I'd bet with the current recession hitting the economy, some of it is ending up in China.
This housing financing situation is ending up as an economic tornado.
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Some homes worth less than their copper pipes
On AM radio in chicago, they were saying that some blocks on the northwest side were street-lightless, because criminals are knocking down the lamps, and steeling the copper inside.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
