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wisconsin_cur
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Joined: May 10, 2007
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Location: The Entropisphere
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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: Krugman: Stranded in Suburbia |
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The guy is spending some more time on the oil issue.
OK, who sent him the video?
| Quote: | If Europe’s example is any guide, here are the two secrets of coping with expensive oil: own fuel-efficient cars, and don’t drive them too much.
Notice that I said that cars should be fuel-efficient — not that people should do without cars altogether. In Germany, as in the United States, the vast majority of families own cars (although German households are less likely than their U.S. counterparts to be multiple-car owners).
But the average German car uses about a quarter less gas per mile than the average American car. By and large, the Germans don’t drive itsy-bitsy toy cars, but they do drive modest-sized passenger vehicles rather than S.U.V.’s and pickup trucks. |
| Quote: | Admittedly, the next few years will be rough for families who bought big vehicles when gas was cheap, and now find themselves the owners of white elephants with little trade-in value. But raising fuel efficiency is something we can and will do.
Can we also drive less? Yes — but getting there will be a lot harder. |
| Quote: | Any serious reduction in American driving will require more than this — it will mean changing how and where many of us live.
To see what I’m talking about, consider where I am at the moment: in a pleasant, middle-class neighborhood consisting mainly of four- or five-story apartment buildings, with easy access to public transit and plenty of local shopping.
It’s the kind of neighborhood in which people don’t have to drive a lot, but it’s also a kind of neighborhood that barely exists in America, even in big metropolitan areas. Greater Atlanta has roughly the same population as Greater Berlin — but Berlin is a city of trains, buses and bikes, while Atlanta is a city of cars, cars and cars. |
Stranded in Suburbia
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DantesPeak
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Joined: Oct 23, 2004
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Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Krugman: Stranded in Suburbia |
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| Quote: | | But we’re living in a world in which oil prices keep setting records, in which the idea that global oil production will soon peak is rapidly moving from fringe belief to mainstream assumption. |
Well I lot of people wished and hoped that PO would be taken seriously. However PO is not yet a main stream assumption and possibly may never be.
Still I am starting (not?) to hear a deafening silence from former PO critics. |
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BigTex
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Joined: Aug 03, 2006
Posts: 4073
Location: Graceland
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: Krugman: Stranded in Suburbia |
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| DantesPeak wrote: | | Quote: | | But we’re living in a world in which oil prices keep setting records, in which the idea that global oil production will soon peak is rapidly moving from fringe belief to mainstream assumption. |
Well I lot of people wished and hoped that PO would be taken seriously. However PO is not yet a main stream assumption and possibly may never be.
Still I am starting (not?) to hear a deafening silence from former PO critics. |
I'll bet it was the same back when they were arguing about whether the earth was flat or round.
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cube
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Krugman: Stranded in Suburbia |
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The author appears ignorant.
He has this silly idea that this "problem" can be solved if America emulated Europe. The size and scope of PO extends far far far beyond that. However it is nice that the topic is being brought up in a mainstream news paper. It is a step in the right direction.
///
Speaking about the "near term aka 15 years" I think America actually has an advantage over Europe. Because we are so grossly inefficient it actually would be VERY easy to cut the first 10%. All it would take is for Americans to drive smaller cars. The first cut is the easiest and it gets exponentially more difficult with time. The ultimate end result is of course a massive die-off but I'll be dead before then. |
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Cashmere
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Joined: Mar 27, 2008
Posts: 1500
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: Re: Krugman: Stranded in Suburbia |
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In unrelated news, a deaf, dumb, and 3 legged dog stumbled upon a bone.
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Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group. |
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mos6507
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Joined: Aug 03, 2007
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Location: Boston Suburbs
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Krugman: Stranded in Suburbia |
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| cube wrote: |
The ultimate end result is of course a massive die-off but I'll be dead before then. |
I take it you're 70 years old already? |
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cube
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:18 am Post subject: Re: Krugman: Stranded in Suburbia |
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| mos6507 wrote: | | cube wrote: |
The ultimate end result is of course a massive die-off but I'll be dead before then. |
I take it you're 70 years old already? |
collapse doesn't happen overnight.
Rome did not fall in 1 day and neither will the age of oil.
It's going to be a slow die-off.
When it comes time for me to die, I expect the USA to lose it's status as the world superpower.
It will have a GDP per capita similar to France but minus all the neat stuff France has like 400 different varieties of cheeses and women who don't get fat.  |
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TheDude
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Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: Re: Krugman: Stranded in Suburbia |
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First thing we could do is to put the ax to zoning restrictions and allow shops to open up in residential areas. Quotas for shippers of goods.
Krugman's piece is like a ripped in half version of the Geography of Nowhere, minus Kunstler's approbation. Nothing too exciting.
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dorlomin
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Joined: Aug 05, 2007
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:01 am Post subject: Re: Krugman: Stranded in Suburbia |
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| cube wrote: |
Speaking about the "near term aka 15 years" I think America actually has an advantage over Europe. Because we are so grossly inefficient it actually would be VERY easy to cut the first 10%. |
I have been thinking of starting a thread on this, that Europes much vaunted public transport infrastructure is actualy saturated or near saturated. Certainly urban rail routes are very crammed during rush hours and they are near capactiy of trains that can run on those lines.
I dont think they will really be able to raise the current volumes of goods on rail too much either.
On the flip side the geography of many of there cities means that commuters can change into smaller still cars and even bikes and scooters. They also find oil price increases far less onerous than americans. UK unleaded has only gone up from 90p to £1.10 as the price of oil has shot up over the past year.
$200 dollar oil would not be abig hit on Europeans. Well depending on the movement of the relevant currencies.
On the flip side domestic energy costs are getting eye wateringly painfull already. |
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MrBill
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Joined: Sep 15, 2005
Posts: 5231
Location: Eurasia
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Krugman: Stranded in Suburbia |
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dunno dorlomin? in one you have the bus, rail, undergound, tram infrastructure all in place already, so it is a matter of adding more rolling stock and drivers.
an incremental increase versus having to install the infrastucture (or dramatically update it) in the first place, plus add rolling stock and drivers.
also, if I compare the metro system in Moscow to London's underground the trains run one minute apart. they have been able to double their capacity using their existing infrastructure. it still needs serious upgrades to continue to service increased passenger loads, but other transport systems can obviously learn from the best practices of others as well.
I simply do not think that the UK is running its rail network in the most efficient manner, so there is room for improvement even before substantial investment in new capacity. Moscow needs to expand its metro service to include its other airports, so I am not trying to criticize the UK.
bonehead planning moves like not running the Paddington Express all the way to Liverpool Street station means that London does not get full benefit from its existing infrastructure investments. I believe Shanghai recently made the very same short-sighted mistake despite having the money and the benefit of central planning to overcome stakeholder obstacles.
cube may be correct that we (collectively) throw good money after bad in an effort to keep unsustainable infrastructure running, but 'theoretically' every tax dollar not wasted on the status quo 'could go' to improving public transport. we can only hope?
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