Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1201 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: Lebanon falls to Hezbollah
Lebanon has not had a 'legitimate' government for 17 months.
The primary factions contenting for political control of Lebanon have been Hezbollah, clearly the most powerful militarily and popularly backed by most of the Lebanese people, and a coalition of western-backed minority leaders headed by Fouad Siniora.
Western powers, unable to achieve their desired political outcome in Lebanon, had launched a Media blitz, referring to Siniora's faction as the 'legitimate government' of Lebanon.
This culminated in the West attempting to de-fang Hezbollah, by having their faction declare itself the legitimate government, and ordering the dismantling of Hezbollah's communication network, a military target of western powers that had had a profound impact on the outcome of the latest Israeli incursion into Lebanon.
This is what triggered the civil war now taking place in Lebanon.
Unfortunately, the Bush Administration greatly misjudged the ability of their faction to prevail militarily or Hezbollah to seize control so quickly.
The minority leaders of Siniora's faction are now either in hiding or holed-up, protected by their own personal militias.
The primary miscalculation of the western powers was their belief that by declaring Siniora's faction the legitimate government, that they would then have control of the Lebanese military. This proved not to be the case, as the Lebanese military refused to recognize Siniora's faction as the legitimate government.
This left Siniora and his faction with only their personal militias to stand against Hezbollah.
The western media now pronounces that Hezbollah has staged a coup 'against the legitimate government of Lebanon' aided by Syria and Iran. None of which has a shred of truth.
Once the Lebanese military refused to recognize the authority of the Siniora faction, there was no way they could prevail against Hezbollah.
The Lebanese Military has "overruled" the demands of the Siniora faction to dismantle the communications network and sided with Hezbollah.
There is no evidence whatsoever of Syrian or Iranian involvement.
link _________________ In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Wed May 14, 2008 1:31 am; edited 5 times in total
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
Your asking us to believe that the terrorist group Hezbollah who were started, funded, trained, and that has been armed by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is acting independent of Iran?
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1201 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
Sword,
You're a fool. Hezbollah is the most popular backed political party in Lebanon. Yes they have recieved funding and weapons from Iran. They were not 'created' by them.
There is no evidence for Iranian involvement in the happenings of the last couple days. That was all stirred up by the Bush Administration. It just didn't go the way they thought it would. _________________ In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
the_sword wrote:
Your asking us to believe that the terrorist group Hezbollah who were started, funded, trained, and that has been armed by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is acting independent of Iran?
That's a joke.
Hezbollah is as much independent/dependent of Iran as Israel is of the US. I believe 'allies' is the pc term used these days.
It was believed that if Hezbollah wanted to take over Beirut, they could do so in 48 hours. Well, they just demonstrated that they could. Had they been a 'terrorist' organization they would have long done so and would have long ceased to exist and succumbed to their 'terrorism'. On the contrary, Hezbollah has been getting stronger and stronger. Everytime US/Israel either directly or through their stooges have tried to corner the resistance movement, it has emerged stronger and more legitimate.
Going past the emotive Mass Media headlines and getting to the crux of the problem its clear that Hezbollah's objectives are aligned with democratic ideals and US's to sectarianism. Hezbollah want a democratic Lebanon based on popular vote while US wants a Lebanon based on sectarian division where President comes from one sect, PM from the other, Parliament speaker from the next.
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
Cid_Yama wrote:
The primary miscalculation of the western powers was their belief that by declaring Siniora's faction the legitimate government, that they would then have control of the Lebanese military. This proved not to be the case, as the the Lebanese military refused to recognize Siniora's faction as the legitimate government.
You are talking out of your arse.
Code:
Alliances Seats Parties Votes Seats
March 14 Alliance
Future Movement (Tayyar Al Mustaqbal) 36
Progressive Socialist Party (Hizb al-Taqadummi al-Ishtiraki) 16
Lebanese Forces (al-Quwāt al-Lubnāniyya) 6
Qornet Shehwan Gathering
Phalangist or Kataeb Party (Hizb al-Kataeb) Independents 6
Independents (Tripoli Bloc) 3
Democratic Renewal (Tripoli Bloc) 1
Democratic Left (Tripoli Bloc) 1
Independents 3
Resistance and Development Bloc
Amal Movement (Harakat Amal) 14
Party of God (Hezbollah) 14
Syrian Social Nationalist Party (al-Hizb al-Qawmi al-souri al ijtima'i) 2
Others 5
Change and Reform Bloc
Free Patriotic Movement (Tayyar Al-Watani Al-Horr) 14
Skaff Bloc 5
Murr Bloc 2
Total 128
The Sunni and Christian groups that form the March 14 Alliance are by a long way better supported than Hezb'Allah. Siniora is a close ally of the Hariri's of whom Rafik was the closest thing to a unifying figue Lebanon has had.
Hezb'Allah has virtualy no support amoung the Sunni's, Druize or Christians. Its alliance with Amal is not exactly the strongest either.
Siniori has lost alot of credibility over the Summer War, but I doubt enough for anyone to want Nasrallah to replace him.
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
Taghayee wrote:
Going past the emotive Mass Media headlines and getting to the crux of the problem its clear that Hezbollah's objectives are aligned with democratic ideals and US's to sectarianism. Hezbollah want a democratic Lebanon based on popular vote while US wants a Lebanon based on sectarian division where President comes from one sect, PM from the other, Parliament speaker from the next.
Hezb'Allah are unreconsructed Khomenists. They have Fark all to do with democracy. They are a Shia extreamist party (more so than Amal) so you are full of it if you think they are some kind of enlightened liberal democratic party. They have exactly zero electoral presence outside of there ethnic heartland and only partake in the democratic process as otherwise they would be shut out of power.
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 662 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
I was waiting for Cid Yami to spin this one. And what a spin, militarily backed by Iran, clearly not the most popular by any vote, what a bunch of bulls**t. Sword, expect Cid to spin like crazy, he always does. Dorlomin, thanks for the source
Hezbollah, whose popularity has grown in the Arab world during its conflict with Israel, has annoyed the U.S. by playing a key part in the reconstruction of Lebanon.
Following the U.N.-brokered ceasefire, Hezbollah has been handing out cash for war victims and the reconstruction of houses and work places.
Hezbollah, which has the controlling vote for Shiites, which form 40 percent of the Lebanese population, will probably expand its already high popularity in military and political arenas.
Arab people have supported Hezbollah regardless of the attitude of their governments. Arabs have held pro-Hezbollah demonstrations in many countries, including Morocco and Iraq.
Observers said Hezbollah’s already-high popularity will increase, despite US efforts, as it meets the needs of the Lebanese people.
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
dorlomin wrote:
Taghayee wrote:
Going past the emotive Mass Media headlines and getting to the crux of the problem its clear that Hezbollah's objectives are aligned with democratic ideals and US's to sectarianism. Hezbollah want a democratic Lebanon based on popular vote while US wants a Lebanon based on sectarian division where President comes from one sect, PM from the other, Parliament speaker from the next.
Hezb'Allah are unreconsructed Khomenists. They have Fark all to do with democracy. They are a Shia extreamist party (more so than Amal) so you are full of it if you think they are some kind of enlightened liberal democratic party. They have exactly zero electoral presence outside of there ethnic heartland and only partake in the democratic process as otherwise they would be shut out of power.
Let me ask you this, what has Khomeini done that has somehow jeoperdized your life or those around you?
Secondly, what, in your mind, makes Hezbollah 'an extremist' shia group? Have they forced themselves onto others? Dont they lead the opposition with Chrisitan, Druze, and Sunni groups? Please note that CNN doesnt count as a credible source for your unfounded claim. Do the Druze have electoral presence in Maronite areas? Do the Maronite have electoral presence in Sunni areas? Hence Maronite and the Druze and everybody else are also 'Shia Extremists'?
Seems like you are talking out of your ass and have no insight into the Lebanese society or politics.
Do you even know whats behind the current crisis beyond your CNN headlines?
Last edited by Taghayee on Sat May 10, 2008 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
Fishman wrote:
I was waiting for Cid Yami to spin this one. And what a spin, militarily backed by Iran, clearly not the most popular by any vote, what a bunch of bulls**t. Sword, expect Cid to spin like crazy, he always does. Dorlomin, thanks for the source
Since when getting military aid from Iran became a vice and from US a virtue?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
dorlomin wrote:
Hezb'Allah has virtualy no support amoung the Sunni's, Druize or Christians. Its alliance with Amal is not exactly the strongest either.
Siniori has lost alot of credibility over the Summer War, but I doubt enough for anyone to want Nasrallah to replace him.
You indeed are talking out of your ass. Who is General Aoun? Whats his religious background? Who forms the opposition?
Siniora is a US installed puppet and everyone knows it. Nasrullah never wants to become the PM or the president. He is the leader of the resistance. The only resistance in teh Arab world that liberated their land from the zionist occupiers and made it possible for those that they represent to live with honor and dignity unlike the Palestinians. According to Haaretz, Nasrullah is the most popular leader in the entire freakin Middle East. He is an honest man with clear goals. What makes him popular, even among Israelis, is that he has never lied like other politicians in the region and has delivered whatever he has promised.
Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah, leader of Hizbullah, enjoys huge popularity in many part of the Arab world, where he is widely viewed as a courageous fighter who neutralized Israel's military might. The charismatic Nasrallah, 47, is a skilled orator with a sense of humor unusual among those in fundamentalist movements.
In this land of divisive politics and sectarian tension, few have embraced controversy quite the way the Christian leader Gen. Michel Aoun has. _________________ In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3130 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
Fishman wrote:
I was waiting for Cid Yami to spin this one. And what a spin, militarily backed by Iran, clearly not the most popular by any vote, what a bunch of bulls**t. Sword, expect Cid to spin like crazy, he always does. Dorlomin, thanks for the source
Glad to know I'm not the only one who sees his political biases a mile away.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1201 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:34 am Post subject: Re: The Reality of Lebanon
Ah, the Evil Comandante Straker, would you like a cigar? If you hadn't noticed, I already filleted Fish-face and threw him carcass back. But that's no reason for you not to demonstrate your ignorance as well. Why not turn this into a learning experience instead? _________________ In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
- George Orwell
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Sun May 11, 2008 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total
All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9Next
Page 1 of 9
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
