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Peakoil.com :: View topic - Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment
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Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment

 
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Denny
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I think the majors are seeing that expanding capacity by "downstream" investment in petroleum is an obsolete concept, like investing in a white elephant.

Ontario was hit hard last year by a refinery outage, and this market has grown a lot in 15 years since the last major refinery was built. A situation a lot like the U.S., Ontario may be more or less a microcosm of North America's retail side of petroleum.

See Globe "Shell quits Sarnia refinery plan"

Some telling phrases in the article:

"Meanwhile, prices for crude oil have climbed rapidly to records near $150 (U.S.) a barrel in recent months, squeezing profit margins for refiners despite unprecedented gasoline prices.

“So, there's not a lot of incentive to get these refineries up and operating, even though there's pretty strong demand for gasoline and lower gasoline prices,” Tristone Capital analyst Chris Feltin said."
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Cashmere
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Smart move.

In unrelated news, it was discovered that 10 days before the last trees were cut down on Easter Island a boating analyst was noting that there was great incentive to get new boat-building businesses started because the price of wood was so high.
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emersonbiggins
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

"Vampyregirl, please pick up the blue courtesy phone. Your company has issued another press release."
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Cashmere
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

emersonbiggins wrote:
"Vampyregirl, please pick up the blue courtesy phone. Your company has issued another press release."


Awesome!
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Impervius
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

The oil companies won't admit to it, but they understand the reality of Peak Oil.
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Peleg
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Denny wrote:
I think the majors are seeing that expanding capacity by "downstream" investment in petroleum is an obsolete concept, like investing in a white elephant.

Ontario was hit hard last year by a refinery outage, and this market has grown a lot in 15 years since the last major refinery was built. A situation a lot like the U.S., Ontario may be more or less a microcosm of North America's retail side of petroleum.

See Globe "Shell quits Sarnia refinery plan"

Some telling phrases in the article:

"Meanwhile, prices for crude oil have climbed rapidly to records near $150 (U.S.) a barrel in recent months, squeezing profit margins for refiners despite unprecedented gasoline prices.

“So, there's not a lot of incentive to get these refineries up and operating, even though there's pretty strong demand for gasoline and lower gasoline prices,” Tristone Capital analyst Chris Feltin said."


The rub is of course they would need to price gasoline appropriately to get a reasonable margin. Why is there always some schmuck messing with prices? Let price rise to the level scarcity demands throughout the chain then deal with the impact of that using tax relief for the poor to smooth thing sout while you subsidize growth in alternatives. That way you get a realistic market signal justifying the response. Take the other approach of trying to get everyone to cut their margin and you end up distorting the chain, making it more vulnerable to sudden failures.
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MrBill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

RBOB is selling for $3.40 a gallon and Heating Oil for $3.85, so the 3.2.1 crack margin in the US is $11-12 per barrel falling to $8-9 in the next few months. $11-12 per barrel on $140 crude is only a 8% margin, so I really do not see any incentive for these companies to ramp up capacity given their fixed costs are spiralling upwards. The NIMBY crowd are just getting what they asked for. Fewer refineries.
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Peleg
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:00 am    Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

MrBill wrote:
RBOB is selling for $3.40 a gallon and Heating Oil for $3.85, so the 3.2.1 crack margin in the US is $11-12 per barrel falling to $8-9 in the next few months. $11-12 per barrel on $140 crude is only a 8% margin, so I really do not see any incentive for these companies to ramp up capacity given their fixed costs are spiralling upwards. The NIMBY crowd are just getting what they asked for. Fewer refineries.


You know if Nero, Trajan, Aurelius were here there would be fewer NIMBY people. What ever happened to the glory of Rome?
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MrBill
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:33 am    Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

They lost sight of the bigger picture as they got caught up in their own day to day amusements and diversions.
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TheDude
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

As I understand it expansions in NA for the last 10-12 years have yielded the equivalent of 10 new refineries anyway.
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