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Denny Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Jul 10, 2004 Posts: 1646 Location: Canada
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment |
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I think the majors are seeing that expanding capacity by "downstream" investment in petroleum is an obsolete concept, like investing in a white elephant.
Ontario was hit hard last year by a refinery outage, and this market has grown a lot in 15 years since the last major refinery was built. A situation a lot like the U.S., Ontario may be more or less a microcosm of North America's retail side of petroleum.
See Globe "Shell quits Sarnia refinery plan"
Some telling phrases in the article:
"Meanwhile, prices for crude oil have climbed rapidly to records near $150 (U.S.) a barrel in recent months, squeezing profit margins for refiners despite unprecedented gasoline prices.
“So, there's not a lot of incentive to get these refineries up and operating, even though there's pretty strong demand for gasoline and lower gasoline prices,” Tristone Capital analyst Chris Feltin said." |
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Cashmere Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Posts: 1971
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment |
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Smart move.
In unrelated news, it was discovered that 10 days before the last trees were cut down on Easter Island a boating analyst was noting that there was great incentive to get new boat-building businesses started because the price of wood was so high. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group. |
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emersonbiggins Moderator


Joined: Jul 10, 2005 Posts: 5078 Location: Dallas
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment |
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"Vampyregirl, please pick up the blue courtesy phone. Your company has issued another press release." _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
George Carlin |
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Cashmere Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Posts: 1971
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment |
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| emersonbiggins wrote: | | "Vampyregirl, please pick up the blue courtesy phone. Your company has issued another press release." |
Awesome! _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group. |
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Impervius Tar Sands


Joined: May 27, 2008 Posts: 20
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Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment |
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| The oil companies won't admit to it, but they understand the reality of Peak Oil. |
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Peleg Heavy Crude


Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 391
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:05 am Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment |
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| Denny wrote: | I think the majors are seeing that expanding capacity by "downstream" investment in petroleum is an obsolete concept, like investing in a white elephant.
Ontario was hit hard last year by a refinery outage, and this market has grown a lot in 15 years since the last major refinery was built. A situation a lot like the U.S., Ontario may be more or less a microcosm of North America's retail side of petroleum.
See Globe "Shell quits Sarnia refinery plan"
Some telling phrases in the article:
"Meanwhile, prices for crude oil have climbed rapidly to records near $150 (U.S.) a barrel in recent months, squeezing profit margins for refiners despite unprecedented gasoline prices.
“So, there's not a lot of incentive to get these refineries up and operating, even though there's pretty strong demand for gasoline and lower gasoline prices,” Tristone Capital analyst Chris Feltin said." |
The rub is of course they would need to price gasoline appropriately to get a reasonable margin. Why is there always some schmuck messing with prices? Let price rise to the level scarcity demands throughout the chain then deal with the impact of that using tax relief for the poor to smooth thing sout while you subsidize growth in alternatives. That way you get a realistic market signal justifying the response. Take the other approach of trying to get everyone to cut their margin and you end up distorting the chain, making it more vulnerable to sudden failures. |
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MrBill Expert


Joined: Sep 15, 2005 Posts: 5394 Location: Eurasia
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment |
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RBOB is selling for $3.40 a gallon and Heating Oil for $3.85, so the 3.2.1 crack margin in the US is $11-12 per barrel falling to $8-9 in the next few months. $11-12 per barrel on $140 crude is only a 8% margin, so I really do not see any incentive for these companies to ramp up capacity given their fixed costs are spiralling upwards. The NIMBY crowd are just getting what they asked for. Fewer refineries. _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense. |
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Peleg Heavy Crude


Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 391
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment |
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| MrBill wrote: | | RBOB is selling for $3.40 a gallon and Heating Oil for $3.85, so the 3.2.1 crack margin in the US is $11-12 per barrel falling to $8-9 in the next few months. $11-12 per barrel on $140 crude is only a 8% margin, so I really do not see any incentive for these companies to ramp up capacity given their fixed costs are spiralling upwards. The NIMBY crowd are just getting what they asked for. Fewer refineries. |
You know if Nero, Trajan, Aurelius were here there would be fewer NIMBY people. What ever happened to the glory of Rome? |
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MrBill Expert


Joined: Sep 15, 2005 Posts: 5394 Location: Eurasia
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment |
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They lost sight of the bigger picture as they got caught up in their own day to day amusements and diversions. _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense. |
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TheDude Expert


Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3398 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
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Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Shell cancels multi billion $ refinery investment |
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As I understand it expansions in NA for the last 10-12 years have yielded the equivalent of 10 new refineries anyway. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
Could you slide your shorts down please? |
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