I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Actually if you produce 1.2 GW from something the size and weight of a coffee maker, you could probably make a car fly. The key line in the story was that the power supply will make or break it.
I vote break. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4401 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: Re: No Worries! We'll all be driving flying saucers soon!
It's a solid state helicopter, not antigravity as most people will think of it. I'll like those lifter projects. Unlikely to scale up. Nothing to see here. Move along. _________________ As long as I am around, there are no worries we have reached "Peak Words"
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:57 am Post subject: Re: No Worries! We'll all be driving flying saucers soon!
mos6507 wrote:
It's a solid state helicopter, not antigravity as most people will think of it. I'll like those lifter projects. Unlikely to scale up. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Now see how does a peak oil bloke like yourself get that so easily, but these guys in the 'alternative science community' insist that they have all discovered anti-gravity in their garage.
Of course lifters are classical technology. Now we need to take the next step and start messing with geometries and high current flows to see if we can't come up with something truly novel. Of course it will be an environmentalists nightmare, giving off UV and possibly x-rays, but hey talk about the coolness factor.
So the idea is take you typical lifter, attach it to a monstrous powersource that moves current like in the range of tens of thousands of amps and you could probably lift something. The thing is, alot of guys now are talking about these craft as depending somehow on ion pressure against neutral air. I think it is probably more conservation of momentum but then the lifters you typically build in your basement are so light that and expanding air mass below them could carry them aloft.
The equation that seems to govern thrust to me is simply
d/dt Mv[1] = d/dt mv[2]
Where M is the mass of the lifter, m is the mass of the ion cloud (nitrogen molecules deprived of a valence electron).
It's Newton all over again. The exact thrust get's a little more complicated since you have particles in transit. It is really only the relative motion you need to care about. However, lifters do produce byproducts like ozone that could be harmful if inhaled so try to experiment in a well ventilated room.
Also notice that the necessary voltage across, though some claim it must be a function of the dielectric gap (and it is), must also be a function of the energy needed to strip particular electrons out of the nitrogen molecule. Around 17kV is where all the action begins. Since nitrogen is 78% of the mixture we call air and it's most available electron comes off at about 17kV you get a nice little ion cloud. But now the problem becomes how do you move that cloud effectively across the gap to the collector realizing that it is a plasma and does not want to congeal but rather expand, and you want to be able to clear out that cloud from the emitter and get some fresh air in to that area to produce more ions. And of course the goal is to get the lifter to lift. Those are the questions that once answered well could open up a door like this professor seems to be tinkering with.
In my own experiments I notice that placing non-conductors in the dielectric gap at the right place could greatly enhance the flow of ions from the emitter to the collector. That is a start. Next you want to get super high current, or higher and higher voltages that rip deeper and deeper electrons out of the molecules thus multiplying the force felt by both the ions and the collector and of course resulting in greater relative motion.
So those are the issues as I see it. In no way do I feel lifters have been researched enough (at least not as far as we know wink wink.)
If I ever get the financial means I intend to get back into that stuff, just for fun of course. It is really fun to hook up some wire and tinfoil to an old computer monitor and watch it start to float. Then you turn off the lights and there is this delicate blue glow.
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