Reduction in Grocery Bags Good or Bad???

rawdealmonty · Coal Joined: Jun 26, 2008 Posts: 2

Good or Bad is, of course, relative. I'm new to this; I've spent the last few weeks reading about recycling, reducing, and the many, many uses of crude oil. Maybe you can shed some light for me as I am no chemist...

Crude oil is extracted and refined. Naphtha is a result of the refining process. Naphtha is used to produce ethane, which is subsequently used to produce ethylene, and from ethylene- polyethylene, from which plastic bags derive. Sounds like the Old Testament.

Before discovering this I was under the basic impression- plastic comes from oil. Therefore, a reduction of plastic demand/production would result in more available oil for other uses- like gas for my car. My question is, is Naphtha an absolute product of the refining process? Can it be sacrificed at the refinery for an increase in petroleum gas production?

If not, unfortunately, I will be disappointed to realize that, although beneficial to the environment, a moratorium on plastic grocery bags would actually result in an increase in prices at the pumps. My understanding- no more plastic bags, demand for petrochemicals goes down, demand for Naphtha goes down, refineries make less on sale of Naphtha, price of petroleum gas goes up to offset the loss on Naphtha sales. Does this make sense? Please help!

Cashmere · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Mar 27, 2008 Posts: 1934

No, it makes no sense.

Welcome to PO.com.

Plastic bags are spit in a bucket - forget about plastic bags.

Think liquid fuel - diesel, gas, jet fuel, avgas, and so on.

By the way, my understanding is that the usual process is to take ethane from natural gas or from oil processing and process it into plastic.
_________________
Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.

jimmyz

bags are just costing stores too much now. it's their way to kill two birds with one stone.

socrates1fan · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 04, 2008 Posts: 284

My parents recently purchased some cloth bags.
You wouldn't believe how much it reduces our garbage!

FoolYap

Ludi

Overall, reduction in plastic grocery bags is a very good thing. Even if they are handy for cleaning the catbox.
_________________
No original ideas are contained in this post.

green_achers

As the caretaker of several miles of river and road frontage, I nominate all plastic packaging for oblivion.
_________________
WWJD? What would Joel Salatin do?

kpeavey · Expert Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 1235

I have so many walmart bags that I started insulating my ceiling with the things. I stuff a dozen bags into a single bag, toss the package in the crawlspace. I have covered half the living room so far.
_________________
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984

______________
Accept the Facts.

GoghGoner · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 10, 2008 Posts: 411

WildRose · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Jun 21, 2006 Posts: 1047

rawdealmonty · Coal Joined: Jun 26, 2008 Posts: 2

I still am very interested in knowing if Naphtha is an absolute product of the refining process? Can it be sacrificed at the refinery for an increase in petroleum gas production? Is ethane primarily refined from natural gas for use in polyethylene production?

Also, Cashmere wrote "Plastic bags are spit in a bucket - forget about plastic bags."

Well, plastic bags are not the largest polyethylene product out there. However, they may be the widest distributed and discarded on a daily basis, which amounts to a lot of waste of valuable oil/natural gas resources and waste in landfills, rivers, streets, etc.

BTW, I've owned and taken to the store re-usable bags for the past 6 months- they're great. At the moment, politicians, the general public, etc. seem only interested in doing what's "green" if it will decrease digits at the pump- this goes for McCain and Obama! I'm simply trying to figure out whether this is a viable action in that battle. Although, I believe high gas prices are ultimately good because they will lead to innovations in efficiency and alternative energy sources that the "cheap" gas of the 90's halted.

Narz

It's a good thing. Plastic bags kill millions of animals a year.
_________________
My PO Amazon store (shameless plug).

JJ · Heavy Crude Joined: Aug 07, 2007 Posts: 336

VMarcHart

Ludi