Peak Oil News

 

  Login or Register
 
Menu
 News
 Search
 Topics
 Stories Archive
 Submit News
 Discussions
 Code of Conduct
 Forums
 Forums Search
 Last 24 Hours
 PO 24hrs
 Peak Blog
 Resources
 About Us
 Downloads
 Web Links
 PeakWiki
 PeakPortal
 Focus Search
 Peak TV
 Peak Oil Boston
 Members
 Your Account
 Members List
 Ignore List
 JOIN!
 Private Messages
 
Light Sweet Crude Oil
 
google
 
PeakSpeak
NICKNAME

Download TeamSpeak
What is PeakSpeak?
Peak Oil on IRC
 
Member Quotes
NYMEX Crude Oil (Light) ........................121.20 5.64 NYMEX NYH RBOB Gasoline (Globex) ...... 3.0421 .1318

Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!

SELL SELL SELL

shortonoil

Suggest Quote

 
Photo Album
Submit Photo
Peakoil.com is You!


member photos
 
ICM
Cisco & Net App Training
 
Peak Oil News: Forums

Peakoil.com :: View topic - Saudi Oil Power Model
 Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   UsergroupsUsergroups   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Saudi Oil Power Model

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly version    Peakoil.com Forum Index -> Depletion Modeling
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pup55
Expert
Expert


Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 3565

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:39 am    Post subject: Saudi Oil Power Model Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Here are some models.

Assumptions:

The world is currently consuming 30 gbo per year. Current Saudi production is 3.58 gb/y which is 9.8 mbd.
Consumption is growing at 2% per year (per Michael Lynch). The rest of the world extraction is declining at 1% per year (per Julian Darley). Current proved reserves in the (non-Saudi) rest of the world are what the 2004 BP Review says they are, which is 885 gb (1047 gb minus 261).

Models:

A. Saudi reserves are 261gb. As production in the rest of the world decreases, and consumption increases, Saudi cranks up the pumps to meet the demand, and levels off at 15 mbpd, which is 5.47 gb/y and holds production constant at that level as long as they can.

B. Saudi reserves are 261 gb. As production in the rest of the world declines, and consumption continues to increase, Saudi cranks up the pumps to allow the world to consume as much oil as they want, for as long as they can, in other words, Saudi is the “swing supplier”.

C. Saudi reserves are 461 gb, same strategy as “A”, namely level production at 15 mbpd/5.47 gb/y.

D. Saudi reserves are 461 gb, same strategy as “B”, Saudi is the “Swing Supplier”.

Discussion:

In the first case, A, because of 1% decline in production and 2% growth, Saudi must make up 3% of global production every year. Saudi is only at about 11% of production now, so this will mean that they need to increase production by nearly 1/3 almost immediately. The 15 mbo/d level is reached in 2008. If they keep the level of production constant, because of demand growth, a global deficit, namely, shortage of oil, will occur at that time. In this scenario, global reserves are completely gone in about 2030, and the Saudis will be out of oil in about 2050. Note this is what the Saudi oil guy is saying will be the case, so in a way he is right, but the world consumption will not be allowed to grow. In fact, if the population keeps growing like it is right now, (1.6% per year) per-capita oil consumption will drop to .66 bbl/yr in 2030, so the going will get tough.

In the second case, B, Saudi decides to be nice guys and pump as much oil as they can so that consumption can grow as much as the rest of the world wants, for as long as they can. Their 261 gb reserves will be 50% depleted in 2018, and their oil will be completely gone by 2025. Global reserves will still be gone in about 2030 but the difference is, no Saudi to back up the world supply. If lucky, Saudi production will decline per the Hubbert theory when they reach 50% depletion, but I have assumed they miraculously avoid this and can pump at full production right up until the end, so it might actually last a little longer because they are constrained as to how fast they cam pump it out of the ground.

Case C is just like Case A except the Saudi reserves are assumed to be 461 gb. The Saudis increase production to 5.47 gb/y, and keep it there for as long as they can. In this case, the shortfalls start to hit in 2008 just like above, but the Saudis can do this well past 2070, except the rest of the world will still run out of oil in 2030, therefore, there will be hell to pay and Saudi will have 100% market share after 2030.

Case D is just like Case B. Saudi reserves are 461 gb, and they decide to let the world consume as much oil as they want. Saudi will be out of oil in about 2030, give or take, which is really bad, because that is when the rest of the world will also be running out, so the whole system will come to a screeching halt.

So, here are the conclusions:

a. The real turning point will be when non-Saudi oil hits its peak. I have assumed it is now, but if it is not now, everything slides back however many years and the conclusions are the same, just later.
b. When the Saudis are telling you what production geniuses they are by increasing the oil production by that much, they are not telling you an important fact: it’s not going to be enough, and we will be hurting in about 2010 even if they can do what they say they can do.

c. You can make the argument that they will be doing us a favor by not pumping more than 15 mb/d because it will force the world into conservation that chances are they would not normally do, and their supply would last longer.

d. If you hear a bump in the night in 2010, it will be one of the four horsemen.

d. Something has got to give.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pup55
Expert
Expert


Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 3565

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:42 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Reserves by year. ROW is "Rest of world", A, B, C and D are the scenarios above. Maybe someone friendly will graph them for us so we can see them.


Code:

   ROW   Saudi   Saudi   Saudi   Saudi
   A   A   B   C   D
2005   885   262   262   461   461
2006   858   258   258   457   457
2007   831   252   252   452   451
2008   805   247   246   446   445
2009   778   241   239   441   438
2010   750   236   231   435   430
2011   722   230   222   430   421
2012   693   225   212   424   411
2013   663   219   201   419   400
2014   633   214   190   413   389
2015   602   208   177   408   376
2016   570   203   163   402   362
2017   537   198   149   397   348
2018   504   192   133   391   332
2019   470   187   117   386   316
2020   435   181   99   381   298
2021   399   176   80   375   279
2022   363   170   60   370   259
2023   325   165   40   364   239
2024   287   159   18   359   217
2025   248   154   0   353   194
2026   208   148   0   348   170
2027   167   143   0   342   145
2028   125   137   0   337   118
2029   82   132   0   331   70
2030   39   126   0   326   21
2031   0   121   0   320   0
2032   0   115   0   315   0
2033   0   110   0   309   0
2034   0   105   0   304   0
2035   0   99   0   298   0
2036   0   94   0   293   0
2037   0   88   0   288   0
2038   0   83   0   282   0
2039   0   77   0   277   0
2040   0   72   0   271   0
2041   0   66   0   266   0
2042   0   61   0   260   0
2043   0   55   0   254   0
2044   0   50   0   246   0
2045   0   44   0   238   0
2046   0   39   0   228   0
2047   0   33   0   218   0
2048   0   28   0   206   0
2049   0   22   0   194   0
2050   0   17   0   180   0
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnmarkos
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude


Joined: May 19, 2004
Posts: 892
Location: San Francisco, California

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:59 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Here you go. And thanks!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Taskforce_Unity
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude


Joined: Nov 22, 2004
Posts: 487
Location: Holland

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:09 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Nice model but where's the peak...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
johnmarkos
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude


Joined: May 19, 2004
Posts: 892
Location: San Francisco, California

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:20 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

There is no peak in this model. Peak oil occurs when the second derivative of the remaining reserve turns positive, which would be indicated by the graph of the sum of ROW + Saudi [A-D] becoming concave upward. Because each reserve is either depleted at a constant rate or faster all the time (exponential growth), I see no peak here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnmarkos
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude


Joined: May 19, 2004
Posts: 892
Location: San Francisco, California

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:55 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

pup55, shouldn't ROW production be in decline instead of increasing? In the model above, it goes from 27 Gb (2005) to 43 Gb (2029).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
maverickdoc
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude


Joined: Jan 12, 2005
Posts: 826

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

How accurate are these numbers?

http://www.photius.com/rankings/oil_proved_reserves_0.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pup55
Expert
Expert


Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 3565

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 9:14 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Johnmarkos:

Thanks for pointing that out. This reserves curve is the "unconstrained" reserves curve (non-Hubbertian), which assumes that the rest of the world can pump oil at whatever rate it nees to in order to meet demand (minus the Saudi production) so the 2024 projected ROW extraction would be 48.3 gb less the 5.5 for saudi or about 43 gb, which is subtracted from the previous year's reserves.

I will include a "constrained" curve, assuming that the extraction rate will be 1% lower everyyear post-peak, a-la the Hubbert theory, for comparison below. It gives an extra 20 years of pumping, for what it is worth, but just kind of prolongs the pain. If you are still kind to me, maybe you will put it on your graph for comparison.

Everything else I said is about right, though, give or take a couple of years.

Maverickdoc:

As to whether the figures are reliable or not, the value of 1043 gb is "proved reserves" from the BP review, which meets rather specific reporting standards. The Oil and Gas Review value was about 1250 gb. The IEA is about the same, maybe a little higher. Michael Lynch quotes a source that thinks this number is about 1400 gb. The USGS thinks this number is about 2000 gb.

The 2% demand growth is per Michael Lynch as well, but the average, according to the BP review, has been slightly lower for the last 10 years, about 1.7%, however, more recently, due to growth in China, this has been much higher, a couple of years ago this was 4%, so 2% is a conservative value. The actual growth rate will be somewhere between population growth (about 1.65% per year) and GDP growth (about 3.5% per year) until we humans figure out a way to decouple economic growth from energy extraction, but that is a subject for another post.

The 1% global depletion rate was from a news article on this website last fall from ODAC. I will have to dig it up for you if you are interested. The 30 GB extraction for last year is a rough estimate done by me, but is probably pretty close based on recent BP data and assuming a modest growth rate.

Anyway, all of this data is reviewable, and another estimate can be made if you have a better number.

Code:
   ROW cons
2005   885
2006    858.84
2007    832.69
2008    806.79
2009    781.16
2010    755.78
2011    730.65
2012    705.78
2013    681.16
2014    656.78
2015    632.64
2016    608.75
2017    585.09
2018    561.67
2019    538.49
2020    515.54
2021    492.82
2022    470.32
2023    448.05
2024    426.00
2025    404.17
2026    382.57
2027    361.17
2028    339.99
2029    319.03
2030    298.27
2031    277.72
2032    257.37
2033    237.23
2034    217.29
2035    197.55
2036    178.01
2037    158.66
2038    139.51
2039    120.55
2040    101.77
2041    83.19
2042    64.79
2043    46.57
2044    28.54
2045    10.69
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
johnmarkos
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude


Joined: May 19, 2004
Posts: 892
Location: San Francisco, California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:30 am    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

New data prompt a new graph. Thanks again, pup55!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
0mar
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude


Joined: Oct 12, 2004
Posts: 1647
Location: Davis, California

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 3:46 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

maverickdoc wrote:
How accurate are these numbers?

http://www.photius.com/rankings/oil_proved_reserves_0.html


As accurate as published numbers. Saudi reserves don't decline because of a state decree sometime in the 80s
_________________
Joseph Stalin
"It is enough that the people know there was an election. The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything. "
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
seahorse
Expert
Expert


Joined: Oct 15, 2004
Posts: 2081
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:29 pm    Post subject: Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

OGJ ran an article this week that said nonopec oil, including FSU, would peak between 2008 and 2010. It assumed 2009. This is very similar to the analogy here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly version    Peakoil.com Forum Index -> Depletion Modeling All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Atom News FeedRSS 1.0 News FeedRSS 2.0 News FeedRSS Forums Feed