Will Biodiesel from ALGAE be the SOLUTION???

chuck6877 · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 511

I learned about Peak Oil 6 days ago from the www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net site. Wow, scared the hell out of me, especially since I'm a pilot for a feeder airline for Delta Airlines. I'm thinking Delta is going under really soon. I thought that before Peak oil knowledge but even more now. I'll have to change jobs and careers but I think I'll be ok.

The Energy technology section of this site has given me hope!! Two days ago, without knowledge of hopeful alternatives, I thought the earth was doomed to a mad-max like future.

I am convinced that a horrible depression will hit the US, that is for sure. The US economy has been teetering on destruction for some time. The housing market will bust, the dollar will plummet more as foreign countries dump dollars, the stock market will crash, inflation will be horrible, wars might occur for oil, and American consumers will FINALLY reign in their spending and increase their 1% savings rate.

Even though I'm convinced these things are unavoidable, I think there is a hopeful future for mankind's energy. The site that has given me the most hope is the University of New Hampshire's Biodiesel group's website.

http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html

That site is awesome! I love the hopefullness of the technology of biodiesel from algae made in US deserts! I also love the idea of diesel-hybrid engines that can be charged at night to reduce fuel usage the next day. I'm right that they might be able to be charged right?

I also think more American's will ride motorcycles and drive tiny cars in the future.

The website above is the only website I've seen reference this in my 5 days of knowing about PO. Are there other websites discussing it?

Has any oil been made from algae yet? Is this a possibility or is it just a pipe dream?? Once again, are there any other websites discussing algae to biodiesel?

The biodiesel from algae sounds like the best of ALL SOLUTIONS in my opinion if we can make it work.

The US could become TOTALLY SELF-SUFFICIENT on our energy needs. Our TRADE DEFICIT would decrease by leaps and bounds. We wouldn't have to COMPETE WITH FARMERS for land which I know is the BIG argument against biodiesel. Americans would have their energy.

The problem like every other technology is the gap in getting the technology going is TIME isn't it? It could take 5-10 years to even get the project started, huh? From things I've been seeing we don't have that long do we?

Even if BIODIESEL from algae doesn't work, I think biodiesel grown in Africa or other countries as well as the US like India, Brasil, etc, could eventually help tremendously our transportation fuel needs, along with all of the other ideas you guys have discussed in this forum.

Thank you for giving me back my hope after first thinking the World was going to end.

I think things will get really bad, but I think there still is a hopeful future, and just maybe the combination of all new technologies will BRIDGE THE GAP to new forms of energy.

I think all of the discussions you guys are having and all of the books that are coming out about PO, are helping stimulate technologies. All of you and your spread of the PO knowledge are making a difference. Scare people to hell with a site like www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net and its going to change them forever for the BETTER.

MAYBE PEOPLE ONE DAY WILL LOOK BACK ON PEAK OIL DOOM AND GLOOM forecasts and say wow that was a bunch of B.S. like the Y2K scare! Wouldn't that be nice??

Chuck

Bytesmiths · Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 6:12 pm Post subject:

Congratulations! You are in the "bargaining" stage of grief.

Most people go through the "seven stages of grief" when confronted with Peak Oil.

I hate to burst your bubble, but it will only help you progress through to "acceptance" and an eighth stage I've identified that has more to do with Peak Oil than, say, a death in the family: "preparation."

There is no solution! As long as you are casting about for solutions, you are stuck in either denial or bargaining.

Algae will supply some energy somewhere. Wind will elsewhere. Solar will somewhere else. And so on. Future energy sources are going to be diverse, distributed, and geographically appropriate. But all of them put together are not going to be more than 10% to 20% of what we are used to.

Good luck in your progress, and don't let this site be your only source of information. As you get closer to "acceptance" and "preparation", check out Community Solution, Post Carbon and other pro-active sites that are working towards "preparation".

IMHO, many of the most vocal people in these fora are not doing adequate preparation.
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Carlhole · Expert Joined: Jul 05, 2004 Posts: 2890

I was impressed by the same site - biodiesal from algae - when I discovered it a few months ago. Truthfully, there are alot of very good ideas out there needing development and refinement. Nanotechnology would seem to play a large role in future energy technologies also. Google "porphyrins" and "energy"; you'll see what I mean.

If you post a few times here at PeakOil.com, you will find that no matter HOW positive you are, someone will rain all over your parade. They are mimicking the tone set by Matt Savinar in "Life After the Oil Crash". It's a particular mindset that firmly holds to a global catastrophe scnario and mass die-off as the only solution to our present energy dillemma.

My advice to those who claim to know the future is "Play the stockmarket and shut up! " No one knows what the future holds. We can only pay close attention to energy supplies and how they are affecting current events and sound cautionary alarms or form political alliances.

Personally, I fall into the camp that believes the Bush Administration is doing the exact oppposite of what is most sensible given the myriad warnings we have received about future energy supplies. I think that the evidence for Peak Oil and global Warming is strong enough to suport very powerful political actions overriding short-term free-market objectives and changing course towards radical conservation and investment in renewable energies. Therefore, knowledge of Peak Oil should be widely broadcast.

We need to first determine as best as possible what our petroleum reserves are; we need to conserve in accordance with those arrived-at figures; and we need a world-wide energy Manhattan project in order to minimize the impact of sudden oil scarcity. Roscoe Bartlett says it very well. Have you listened to his recent speeches on CSPAN?
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hotsacks · Heavy Crude Joined: May 13, 2005 Posts: 455

Chuck: Algae feedstocks for biodiesel are very promising. Check out Mike Briggs' postins at biodieselnow. He's got some exciting math. And yeah,don't let the Cassandras bother you. This too shall pass.

Tyler_JC · Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject:

Does it have an EROEI of 20 or better? Can we force the world to sell it for dollars? Can we make fertilizers from it? What about plastic? Is it cheap? Is it portable? And more importantly, can I use it along with the nearly 800,000,000 cars on the road right now? Perhaps the most important, will it allow continued growth of the industrialized economies?

If the answer to all of those questions is yes...we're all set Very Happy

.
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"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."

MicroHydro · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Apr 10, 2005 Posts: 1286

The gloom and doom outlook is based on more problems than just PO.

If the planet had a small fossil fuel endowment to begin with, say 200 billion barrels, and production peaked at 3 billion barrels/year with a world population of 1 billion people or less, and forests, fisheries, and soils were healthy, that would be a different story.

The point made by the Limits to Growth, 30 Year Update authors and Matt Savinar is that this planet is pushing up against a lot of limits, not just energy. Even an unlimited supply of fossil petroleum would not make the 21st century much better.

Another unrelated problem is that the world economy is at the end of the current K cycle with extreme levels of debt. That led to major trouble even way back in 1929 when natural resources were plentiful.

Societies under stress tend to become repressive and warlike, another problem, especially with WMDs all over the place.

So, I like biodiesel, but it will not prevent the next half a century from being a "cluster****' as Kunstler would say.
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"The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel

EddieB · Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject:

Ditto Carlhole. There are a lot of potential solutions out there. We just need to get used to the idea that we'll be living with less and our apples won't fly in from New Zealand.
I understand that the current financial system will probably breakdown under the stress of rising oil prices - great depressionesque lifestyles will then ensue. We have infrastrucure and knowledge beyond the wildest dreams of people living 100 years ago.
We may have a slow motion die-off, but I'm not seeing a massive global famine reducing the world to mad-max in a few years. Life is going to change, but we'll still eke out a living one way or another.

chuck6877 · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 511

Tyler_JC and Bytesmiths,

Did either one of you read the website??? I bet neither of you read the site. You're both unintelligent morons. Educate yourselves on the website and then come and talk your doom and gloom.

"Some species of algae are ideally suited to biodiesel production due to their high oil content (some well over 50% oil), and extremely fast growth rates."

"Enough biodiesel FROM ALGAE to replace all petroleum transportation fuels could be grown in 15,000 square miles, or roughly 12.5 percent of the area of the Sonora desert." IT TAKES UP A RELATIVELY SMALL AMOUNT OF LAND!

THE BEST PART IS IT CAN BE GROWN IN THE DESERT! You don't need current farmlands! This technology has the potential to be awesome. Let's hope it gets the funding. I'm just worried that big-oil and Bushie won't let something like this get off the ground. He might want to keep the power with the Big Oil companies:(

"Feedstocks such as algaes can yield substantially higher energy balances THAN SOY, as can using thermochemical processes for processing wastes into biofuels (such as the thermal depolymerization process pioneered by Changing World Technologies). Such approaches can yield EROI values ranging from 5-10, potentially even higher. "

Have you doomsdayers even read anything about thermal depolymerization? This technology wil explode when oil prices start their upward march to above about $80.00/brl, because they'll be cost effective at that point.

Diesel powered-Hybrids will get 60+ miles per gallon reducing fossil fuel consumption . Guess what with the ALGAE BIOFUEL we wouldn't need even the fossil fuels!

Hydrogen is a good start when it gets up and running. EXXON-MOBIL, BP AMACO, and Chevron-Texaco know better than us what's up with peak oil. They have been flooded with unforseen profits. They will protect themselves for the future and invest billions to make hydrogen work first of all. They'll USE COAL to produce the hydrogen. It will work. They'll put the money in to make it work. They will keep their profits coming after OIL is gone.

WE DON'T HAVE TO REPLACE ALL TRANSPORTATION FUELS THE YEAR AFTER PEAK OIL IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE! Through a COMBINATION and SLOW IMPLEMENTATION of conservation, carpooling, purchasing of better diesel hybrid cars, motorcycles and MOPEDS(why not ride a moped to work?), BIOFUELS, nuclear power, coal plants, the production of hydrogen fuels from nuclear, coal, etc. for hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles, THERMAL DEPOLYMERIZATION, windmills, solar power, cars that can be plugged in to the electrical grid, technologies that I can't think of now, and any number of yet to be discovered technologies, WE WILL BRIDGE THE GAP TO NO LONGER NEEDING OIL, and then COAL and NATURAL GAS.

IT WILL HAPPEN.

I KNOW there will be a DEPRESSION, WARS, and MANY DEATHS because of the future lack of energy, but the CASH RICH BIG COMPANIES, BILL GATES and other ENTREPENEURS, and THE GOVTS of the WORLD will FUND THIS EFFORT LIKE the MANHATTAN PROJECT when PO is finally a reality to the world.

Humanity is a lot stronger than you guys think.

You're both just depressed hopeless individuals that need a strong leader to hold your hands and help you get through the crisis. Maybe to survive IN your MAD-MAX WORLD you both can get milk from your mother's breasts:) GROW SOME BALLS AND STOP CRYING.

Crying isn't going to solve this problem. Leadership, Entrepeneurial spirit, funding by EVERY GOVT in the world and EVERY BILLIONAIRE, will get us through this crisis after YES much turmoil. But after the turmoil, a stronger and smarter society will prevail. A society will prevail, that finally works with their environment, and learns to live in harmony with it.

Chuck

p.s. thank you hotsacks for the information for me to look up more on algae biodiesel.

Does anyone else know of any more websites to look up more about Algae biodiesel??

chuck6877 · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 511

EddieB and Microhydro,

I agree with both of you that things are going to get really bad especially with the economy.

Personal savings rates are at 1%. Personal debt is spiraling out of control. The Deficits are unsustainable. Bankruptcy laws were changed just in time for this weren't they? The Housing market is about to CRASH. INFLATION IS going to spiral upwards out of control especially when the PO hits hard. Those 0% Down ADJUSTABLE RATE MORTGAGES aren't looking to smart now are they?? The DOLLAR is going to plummet like never in our history.

MAYBE we'll take out IRAN's nuke production, MAYBE SEE a NUKE dropped here or there, but probably not mutual DESTRUCTION with RUSSIA. I don't see Russia dropping a nuke on us, and they're the only ones we REALLY have to fear. We'll take out Kim Jung Il's nukes before he becomes a problem. We'll control Saudi Arabia's oil and others may want it but we won't let them have it. We always have the nuclear option and that will prevent any BIG WARS. The other countries may be worse than us because of this but oh well, till we get the energy problem solved. Those with ENERGY WILL THRIVE and RECOVER QUICKER and that will be the U.S.

The good thing about all these things is that the DEMAND FOR OIL will SHRINK TREMENDOUSLY and help us have oil energy especially from Saudi Arabia for a longer time until alternatives are created and implemented. I believe we will NEVER lose the oil from SAUDI ARABIA atleast for a long time. Maybe we'll lose it periodically, but we will guard that oil with our lives.

It probably won't get too bad in the grand scheme of things. I agree with you Tyler and Microhydro, things will get bad but we'll get through, one way or another. I think some of us are going to look back 50 years from now (hopefully me an my wife will be two that look back) and say,
"WOW" that could have been a lot worse.

Chuck

Bytesmiths

chuck6877 · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 511

Sorry Bytesmiths for saying what I said. I was wrong.

I think I've gotten past the denial stage and have moved on to fixing the problem. I just didn't like your attitude that there is no HOPE?

We don't have to replace all of the fossil fuels in one year. It can be done over 10-20 years.

I just think you've let the whole PO thing depress you too much. There is hope. A combination of all of the new technologies, I bet will replace the fossil fuels at the same rate as their decline.

If even half of the lost fossil fuels are replaced each year, prices would rise to buy the new technology fuels but the world does not have to END.

sorry again,
chuck

Colorado-Valley · Intermediate Crude Joined: Aug 16, 2004 Posts: 729

So Chuck, what kind of hybrid did you buy?

Have you gotten off the grid, yet? Have you moved into a walkable community? Do you still buy stuff from the big-box stores that's hauled here from China?

Do you buy your food from local farmers? Are you still using natural gas to heat your house?

The government certainly won't demand the sacrifice to make these changes. They're going to have to be done on an individual level well before energy gets expensive and the financial and social structures begin to crumble.

What if Ghawar peaks tomorrow? Next month? Next year? Are you in any way prepared?

chuck6877 · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 511

Colorado-Valley · Intermediate Crude Joined: Aug 16, 2004 Posts: 729

I don't know about diesel hybrids, but I did just purchase an electric motorbike.

I live on a semi-Amish-style small ranch, and I've had the utility switch me to their "green-power" wind-generated electricity option. Luckily, the ranch was paid off generations ago.

You'll find that trying to envision peak oil is almost impossible, because essentially nobody knows when or how hard it will affect us. I wouldn't dismiss Savinar, though, because his scenario is entirely possible.

I'm not much for the "miracle" technologies that will swoop in out of nowhere and save us, simply because we don't have the small population of rural-type people with a rich resource base that we had in the 1930s. I don't trust our government at all, because it looks much less like a republic and much more like a "banana republic" these days. And foreign policy is a tinder keg that could go off any minute.

But my optimism is that we can evolve into a Shire -- a country of small towns and villages that grows its own food, makes its own clothes and tools, and everybody enjoys a good pint at the Green Dragon Inn at night in a world that's much more natural.

That's my best hope.

Bytesmiths · Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 10:20 am Post subject: