How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
From one acre of land you should be able to get 50 gallons of oil
Its a simple crushing process to extract the oil from the seeds
The oil can then be put straight into any diesel engine
Making petrol from hemp is possible but much more difficult
I have no idea how much diesel the average farm uses, is 50 gallons an acre enough to run a farm?
PS Theoretically it should be possible to get 100 gallons an acre, 50 is a more realistic figure for the moment
PPS Other seed crops have higher oil content, but hemp also produces useful fibres and cellulose for manufacturing and is generally pest resistant
PPPS A rule of thumb is that any field that can grow corn can grow hemp
Reply to a now-non existent post!!!
Some technical stuff on hemp and oil seed crops in general
>Whether or not it turns out to be feasible as a major energy source, it seems reasonable that oil could be a useful byproduct of a fiber-producing operation. So then the relevant question is, given a reasonable expectation of hemp production for fiber, what quantity of oil can be expected as a byproduct of this?
From article I found:
In some countries hemp is grown as a dual-purpose crop which is harvested for both seed and fiber when seeds are near maturity. In France, hemp seed is directly combined around the 15th of September using a combine set to cut 1.5 meters (5 feet) above ground level. The combine cuts the upper stems and threshes the seed in the field. The remaining crop is cut using a mower-conditioner and baled after field drying. Seed yields using this system range from 600 to 1000 kg/ha (536 to 893 pounds/acre) (Van der Werf, 1992).
Maximum expected seed yield from dual-purpose is 1000 kg/ha (893 pounds/acre), and dry hemp stalk yield is typically 4.5-6.7 tonnes/ha (2-3 tons/acre) (Bocsa and Karus, 1998).
>Then also, consider the potential value of the hemp oil for food uses, which may be more important depending on its nutritional qualities.
Hemp oil is the most nutrious of the seed crops
There is a certain attraction to the concept of using the same oil for food and fuel!
>Then also, consider canola oil as another source of biodiesel: if canola is a substantially more efficient fuel crop, and substantially worse from a nutritional standpoint, then it stands to reason that canola oil would be used for fuel and hemp oil as a food product.
I think this is very possible, both sunflower & canola produce a fair bit more oil
Unless breeding improves seed yield hemp would only be used for fuel in combination with the use of its fibres
It might turn out that hemp while not being the best oil seed crop happens to be the best all round plant for food, fibre, cellulose and oil (for food or fuel). Its largely pest resistant, somewhat self fertilising and good on the soil
Once peak oil becomes an issue in Europe at least the experts will take a serious look at hemp
What we need round here in an agricultural specialist who can tell us the real deal on the 'weed'
On a lighter note (or maybe that should be 'higher' note!)
Perhaps we could learn from the marijuana growers, they have become quite adept at growing and breeding
Why not grow crops hydroponically, it doesn't make sense to water a whole field when we only need to water the root system
Dual-purpose hemp is inefficient on both counts (seed and fibre). In most countries, as I explained in a prior post which, hopefully, may come back, hemp grown for fibre is densely sown while that grown for seed is sparsely sown. The former gives long straight stems with retted fibres up to or even more than 2 m long, harvested before the seed is formed. The latter permits branching with multiple flower heads on shorter stems and a much higher yield of seed, which is oil-richer, as less energy is directed to the high plant-growth.
Hemp oil is rarely used for human consumption. Like linseed oil and other drying oils, it has an unpleasant flavour. It is mostly used as a drying oil in varnishes and paints and in avine fodder.
Canola oil is an impure form of colza or rapeseed oil. Purified, it is much used industrially and domestically for human consumption and gives much higher yields/hectare than hemp, especially as, being a spring crop, something else can be grown after the harvest. The big disadvantage is that it is not wise to grow colza or other brassicae on the same ground in under three years because of root nematodes. Colza requires much less water than hemp, which is important in most parts of the world. _________________ Devil
I too have read dual purpose hemp is a compromise
Harvesting later for seeds also increases the lignen content making the fibre harder to process
I'm no plant expert but maybe this could be resolved through breeding - I have seen what the marijuana growers have done and its very impressive, they make the cannabis plant produce so many flowers it can't support its own weight!
Unless dual purpose becomes practical hemp oil probably won't be produced in vast quantities even though I can see hemp being grown in vast quantities for fibre/cellulose. Its unfortunate really
However hemp oil is very good for human consumption, ideal for people to grow in their gardens in case of food shortages
It might not taste good but it is one of the most nutritious oil's a human can eat
There are cases where people have lived for weeks on a handful of hemp seeds a day
The main commercial use I can see is the fibre and cellulose which can make paper, cloth and plastic
Unlike seed, its yield of fibre is very high, of good quality and has one of the highest cellulose contents for any plant
It also uses less water than cotton and requires less fertiliser and herbicides than other plants
Some very good reasons to grow lots of hemp
But yeah... I expect we will end up growing canola or sunflowers for bio-fuel
However, if we can perfect a duel use hemp technique we would get an extra bounty of oil along with the fibre
Speaking from experience, *hemp* takes quite a few fertilizers to grow correctly. A brief look at hempbc or hightimes will tell you that. Sure, it's a weed, so it will basically grow anywhere, but to reach optimal yields, it needs as much nutrients and sunlight as it can get.
As much as I'd love to see hemp save the world, I don't see it happening.
Although, I must admit, a "Peak Hemp" scenario would be interesting.
Personally, I think it would be much cooler to run one's car off of hash oil.
It does require fertiliser and pesticide but not as much as other plants
The leaves of hemp are high in nitrogen and if you leave them on the ground they self-fertilise to a certain extent
Hemp also has few natural pests so pesticides are not so important
Its just so easy to grow the damn stuff
The US government spends millions trying to kill all the ditchweed and they can't!
I have moved away from hemp as a bio-fuel, unless cellulose can be used to make petrol, can anyone help me on this one???
Hemp has highest cellulose content of any plant so its great for making plastic
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 3:20 am Post subject: Hemp,Canabis,Marihuana
Dear All,
It is an interesting debate you have here - however, I strongly suggest that you all read one book, which will really open your eyes:
'The Emperor wears no clothes'.
It tell the incredilbe story about the history of hemp and about lots of uses of this "best of all" plant.
Believe me, once you have read this book - all facts are proven - you might get the feeling that we must change this world immediately - we could solve most of our environmetal and poverty problems within a few years.
One fact: Enough oil could be produced to satisfy the need of petrol and diesel in the US, If hemp was grown on 6% of the US land.
The first big picture book on the most useful plant of our planet: Cannabis. More than 200 colour pictures from history and present. On hemp as a resource, medicine and stimulant.
More than half a century attention focused on hemp only because of the intoxicating effects of its blossoms and any other aspect of the plant was almost completely ignored. This book will try to put the whole plant back into the picture, its multiple uses, its long history and most of all its return as one of the planets most useful resources. It will show the cycle of its growth on the fields, the people and machines working with hemp and the wide variety of products coming out of this.
Mathias Broeckers co-authored the German edition of Jack Herers milestone-book on Cannabis: 'The Emperor wears no clothes'.
'Raising general awareness about the limitless aspects of the cannabis plant is a cause that is of interest to all. Besides contributing toward this process, Cannabis is also a beautiful reference book that will look good on any reading table.' - Sensi Seeds
This book is written in 4 languages, please click here for a description of the contents in German, English, Spanish or French.
Author: Mathias Broeckers
224 pages, hardcover.
- unquote -
Pls. read it and write your comments on this page. It made me almost cry out loud.
If you're all up in arms about finding a viable plant based diesel, the proverbial "they" are very, very close to perfecting a 100% soy based diesel that could be a very plausible substitute. Energy efficiency matters I'm not certain of, but from what I've heard it'd be possible to use the excess of heat plants as fuel to produce it. Perhaps someone else has more details on it.
Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Posts: 40 Location: Australia
Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:51 pm Post subject:
G'Day from Oz,
Guys - you have a good level of energy in the debate. Just a couple of points I'd like to make.
There are two ultimates to consider.
1. Yield - oil - biodiesel is far more efficient than ethanol due to the engine
and
2. Energy Profit Ratio.
First Yield..
Canola or Rape or Mustard yield almost a ton of oil on good country per hectare. The US only uses 20% diesel in its fleet but with the fleet size that is a considerable 4 to 5 million barrels per day.
We'll say that is 182 million barrersl each year or over 200,000 megalitres.
at 1000 litres per hectare is 200 million hectares or over 20% of your land area. I don't know what your arable is but the figure required would be around half or more!
Now EPR.
Depending on the reports ethanol is either an energy loss or a slight energy profit. Most say it has an EPR of 2. 1 barrel in and get two back.
Biodiesel is better - say 3 or 4. Still not really good.
If you go to a tree crop you can get an EPR of around 20 - that is why the CSIRO here is working on planted forests to supply methanol.
I am promoting an a cultivar of an Australian Native I have identified that gives a yield of 4 to five tons per hectare and not on good arable country - on grazing country! I do not have an accurate assessment of its EPR but it is better than methanol!!
Tree crops are essential as they preserve soils and have a lower energy requirement than annual cropping.
If there are any boffins out there who do EPR Calcs leave a message and I will get back to you. Similarly we are looking for a sophisticated investor or two to help fund the ramping up of vegetatively propagated stock so we can supply a million seedlings per annum.
Eventually we will supply the Gulf States and South America.
The important thing is to have diesel for agriculture and transport - It may be hard but people will get over the shock of not being able to drive tractors (SUV'S) and have to take public transport. It is a little more difficult to get over not eating!
You can forget about the Moon for energy, hydrogen and other scams - they just cost too much energy. The best nuclear has an EPR of 2 and that is over 30 years!!! the average are still in deficit!!
It is not about money it is about energy and trees are the best way to capture the energy from the sun!
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 244 Location: the Village
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 7:33 am Post subject: re:
Anyone that says you have to compare bio-diesels to petrol is talking sh*te ;
car engine was designed to run on vegetable fuels from the beginning -
see the Model T Ford original specs. for example.
You can, and many are already doing it too, run diesel engines on used vegetable oils - there's a van that advertisises this in the UK, it runs on used oil from chip shops and other fry up places.
The onus was on they who began the mining to prove how that was cost-effective in comparison to crop growing and oil processing.
Good discussion. One more thing that has not come up yet. Am I right to assume, that if hemp was used to manufacture semi-durables and even durables on large scale, it might function as effective sink for CO2 and ease the climate change? Can somebody do the numbers?
Sololeum calculated that "20% of your land area" would be needed to grow an oil crop to supply diesel-replacement needs. And that only represents 20% of the total US fleet.
Therefore there is not enough land, arable or not, in the US to grow a replacement. Isn't this the key issue here?
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