Before anything else, I'd like to point out your affinity for John 16. I see your point, but I'd like to add that it's way too little, to late. Human nature is one of exploitation and short-term benefit. Our vision ends at death, and nothing else matters past that. With a faith-based majority in the world, we've certainly forgotten the lesson (or choosen to ignore it).
To answer the original question, I'd say (only with hindsight to guide me):
Look at what we've been given. The possibilities from this little discovery are endless. But, like all things, we must be certain it's used correctly. What you've just discovered can change the world. The energy stored in oil will bring lives together, and drive them farther apart. Only with the proper use of this new material, will we be able to benefit, long term. So we must ensure a respect for this new-found prosperity. We've been endowed with all the things necessary to survive and thrive in this earth, but we can't get carried away. Let us respect this abundant soure of energy and use it to promote life and liberty while we still have use of it's gifts. Like all things we didn't work to create, we must assume this isn't meant to last.
So lets be good stewards of this new resource. Let's share it's gifts. Let it enable us to reach for the heavens, and equalize all men. Together we can ensure generations of prosperity, by focusing this gift toward long term benefits. Used wisely, oil will jump-start us towards unprecedented luxury and ability. Our haste will doom us dependent on a limited resource, one that will destroy our world and leave future generations without the benefits this oil provides. Like all worldly things, this was put here to our benefit, and lest we abuse it, it will benefit us for all time.
Conversely, we can let this drive the wedge between us. We can chase these benefits to the end of the earth, dividing us as we go. It can easily enable great destruction upon all men, so let us decide. Exploitation or respectfull gain, what shall it be?
This is a test! We can't choose the short term benefit! Life was fine before it, lets not get carried away. _________________ remember-we don't inherit the earth from our parents, we lease it from our children
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 37 Location: Harrisburg, PA, USA
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:48 am Post subject:
vegasmade, I love ya, you're my brother BUT....
When I got this little townhouse here in Harrisburg, the first thing I did was get rid of the wind chimes the seller's left hanging out back, and now,,, I know why.
Let's review. God sets up His earth, makes a little garden, puts man in it to "tend" it (that is, to manage it) and sets the bait. "Adam, help yourself to the garden, I've got to take a little trip to the other side of the universe, I'll be back". Then, as he starts an exit, turns, "oh Adam, I almost forgot to tell you -- it must be my age -- listen up. Do you see that tree over there? No, the one to the left, that's it. It's the tree of knowledge Adam, knowledge. It's very, very deadly! Now I'm late, catch you later in the cool of the day".
As we know, Adam eats of the deadly tree of knowledge, then hides his cards. Adam could have any tree but such a tree, by its very nature, cannot elevate. Adam could not "get ahead" with those trees, he already had them!
This is the same spirit that drives a handsome man, who is sought by many beautiful women, to desire one he cannot have or get. He can't attain a feeling of making himself better with something that is already his.
This is a force that is highly esteemed in the eyes of men but detestable in the eyes of God. One does not feel good about oneself unless advancing. To satisfy this crave we look for new things we don't already have. It's a crave to add and, in the end, very, very deadly.
That is why I have so much respect for the native american indians. They lived in balance with nature and respected it. They knew their place and they didn't seek to get more and more, they were happy to live as their fathers and fore-fathers had done for centuries. They knew that they should only take as much as they needed and no more. No one taught them this, they figured it out themselves. _________________ Hello, my name is Rax. I live in the Amazon jungle with a bunch of women. We are super eco feminists and our favourite passtimes are dangling men by their ankles and discussing peak oil. - apparently
The real trick would probably be to convince people that oil is a dead end, but clean, renewable energy is limitless and leads to the real advancement of our civilization. The use of oil is inevitable. There's no way to say to people "This will advance your society by light years, but it's going to create some environmental problems and eventually run out hundreds of years later when you're all dead" and expect them to pass up the opportunity just because of those drawbacks. So, knowing that people are going to start using oil one way or another, I would actually encourage them to do so, just to remove the mystery. If oil is the forbidden fruit, I would do my best to make it the rest of the garden. I would tell them that oil is a limited resource, it's only located in certain areas, and it ultimately won't take them that far, so go ahead and use as much as you want. It leads to a very predictable arrangement in which the oil-rich countries call the shots and the others are forced to deal with them on their terms.
At the same time, I would warn them about the unlimited power of renewable energy, say that it revolutionized our society and that anybody can tap into it with things like solar panels and wind turbines. I would probably caution them that they weren't ready for that kind of power, and that they should stick to resources with obvious limitations and drawbacks like coal and oil, because their limitations serve as a check to man's thirst for power. Hopefully, this would make oil seem already outdated and obsolete in the light of the promise of a world filled with unlimited clean energy. People want what they don't or can't have. The trick is to make clean energy the mysterious, alluring forbidden fruit, while stripping oil of its draw. This would set people on an early path to seeking alternatives to oil before they had hardly even begun using it, which I think is the best you can reasonably expect to achieve. _________________ What a horrible night to have a curse.
Joined: Oct 12, 2004 Posts: 599 Location: The Pit of Despair
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 11:40 am Post subject:
highlander wrote:
Joe W
Your contempt for religion, whoops I mean Christianity, has made you a dumbass. Google Manifest Destiny
i'm sorry if you read it as contempt for Christianity, but that is not the case.
my contempt is not for religion, but for how religion can (and is) used to control the populous. the only reason that i suggest its use here is because i believe the ends justify the means.
Though you will not believe me, I am sending you this message from the future! We have all sorts of fascinating inventions, like you would expect. We have flying machines! We have walked on the Moon! We have grown to a population of 6.5 billion!
And we all are about to die…
You see, you all have this book, called the Bible. In the first chapter, it tells you in explicit terms NOT to take the knowledge of “good and evil” from the “tree of life.” You know that good means life and death means evil. God, therefore, has advised you not to pick “winners” and “losers” in this game of life. That knowledge has been forbidden from humans.
I’ll give you a secret from the future. Humans and human like animals have been on this planet for MILLIONS of years. It’s completely true! Go to Africa and dig around for some bones, you will human and human like bones at places in the earth known by your scientists to be millions of years old. Our technology allows us to know the dates with even further precision. Homo Sapiens has walked this earth for 500,000 years!
Of course, your first question would be what did these people do for the 490,000 years before recorded history? The answer is that they lived very much like the Indians that you found here did. (You’ll find this funny. We call these people Native Americans in the future!) Why then did these ancestors of yours not build huge cities and air machines in the year 400,000 B.C. then? The answer is that they followed God’s advice.
Thomas Malthus did have it correct. Endless population growth kills off animals in a finite world. Endlessly growing more food to feed a growing population destroys the ecosystems that God Himself put there. The conformity of growth that pervades all civilizations ends up killing us all off. We have eaten 40% of our environment and we will eat the next 60% in a very few years after I have written this (2005!). Our population will “crash” and it has become too late to stop it. We have fueled this population increase with oil and oil based products, of which there are very, very many. (PLEASE STOP DRINKING IT! IT HAS HORRIBLE HEALTH EFFECTS!) Our main use comes from distilling it into a product that has 100 times the power of a steam engine. It provides 90% of our transportation energy.
You, however, have a chance at averting this crisis. You must allow people to live in different ways and your civilizations all must come together to slowly reduce the amount of food you grow every year. You must look for ways of using this oil that does not destroy your world. We burned so much of our oil that it heated up the ENTIRE PLANET causing the deserts to expand, the ice caps to melt, and the warm waters coming from the Caribbean to Europe to go away!
To prove myself to you and to help you ease this transition, I give you 2 gifts. One, You will find that Pennsylvania and the new state of Texas have billions of barrels of oil, start at Spindletop, Texas and Titusville, Pennsylvania (on Oil Creek obviously). Secondly, you will find billions of barrels of oil on the Arabian Peninsula about 300 miles due south of the northernmost tip of the Persian Gulf. It will be hard to miss given that its 150 miles long and 25 miles wide, though somewhat deeper than oil finds of your day. The Wahhabists gain enormous power over my world and have the ability to affect the lives of millions of Americans. We have descended into the beginnings of what we call “World Wars” by sending armies to the tip of Persia to assure the continued flow of this resource (we have used MOST of the US oil already), without which many of us will die. To avoid this fate, go find those reserves and put them towards slowing down the population growth and reducing human pressures on the environment. You will gain thousands of years to slowly accumulate knowledge and technology, a more peaceful life, and perhaps in time even your own sustainable flying machine!
If you choose to continue your way, you doom all of your children and grandchildren. I hope you make the right choice.
P.S. We have had 2 World Wars already, and oil played a factor in both. Millions died.
P.P.S. Tell the South that it CANNOT win against abolition. Free all slaves. Otherwise, you face a CIVIL WAR in very short time. General Grant proves to be a much better general than his drunken countenance would allude to, the North wins and the South is destroyed for many years. _________________ EntropyFails
"Little prigs and three-quarter madmen may have the conceit that the laws of nature are constantly broken for their sakes." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
Joined: Nov 09, 2004 Posts: 1236 Location: Big Rock Candy Mountain
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:52 pm Post subject:
People aren't "convinced" by persuasion. People do what all life does: struggle like hell to survive. If by chance you're "successful" then you move to the next level-like in a game. At the next level more skill is needed to maintain "success". Too much success leads to overshoot so game over or back to square1.
The Native Americans exterminated all the American megafauna and were no doubt forced to adopt a way of living more in balance with their environment. It is obvious they didn't hold a conference on "Megafauna Depletion" and make needed adjustments. And these were people with a superb knowledge of the natural world!
We should know better, not being able to claim ignorance.
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 37 Location: Harrisburg, PA, USA
Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject:
I'll name the $200 winner tomorrow. In the meantime, one more baby step.
The earth is no accident. This doom, no accident. He's going to harvest a group of people from the planet: they will love Him, they will love each other and they will not self destruct.
I'm a simple person. The concepts I'm about to share, simple. Here's the good news for those who have ears.
God made Adam and gave him access to the palace except the $10 in the coffee table. Adam took the 10 and hid it in his shorts. God knew that the sons of Adam would use their thinking power to do the same and claim everything they saw of value and pretend it was their's for the taking, a process that would continue until they destroy themselves.
In the meantime God was working an alternate plan. He found Abram, a man that didn't use his brain to elevate himself. God made an agreement with him and changed his name to Abraham.
Listen, a child could understand this.
God now tested Abraham to see if he would make any claims. The most through test, God asked him to give back his son Isaac. Abraham passed the test. Abraham considered nothing his personal property. Everything belonged to God including his [and Sarah's] only son. An angel stopped the sacrafice at the last moment.
So, cheap Adam couldn't pass up a ten while generous Abraham would give God his son.
Simple stuff.
God now will work with Abraham's seed to produce a whole generation of generous people.
To accomplish the task, God who owns everything takes the form of owning nothing including His only begotten Son, asks his Son to give up all his rights and be obedient to death.
In the meantime the sons of Adam, who own nothing, claim eveything that not nailed down as their own and are disobdient always trying to save their own skin and get ahead of the guy in the next lane.
The Good News is this. God has opened the door for anyone to abandon the stingy Adams clan and join the generous clan of Jesus because he is returning for those who have died to personal ownship.
Now here's the message for pastor John. Anyone claiming to be Christian and fails to use worldly wealth to gain friends Luke 16 should go out a buy a sign, "will work for food", pan, pick and shovel because they are going to be left behind with all of the stingy people that would not share God's wealth to reconcile themselves with their fellow man (without prejudice).
Their "religious appearence" is not fooling God, duct taping a bible to their heads will not help if they are stingy.
I put together a thing called the Shrewd Samaritan if you'd like to read how the two work together.
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 37 Location: Harrisburg, PA, USA
Posted: Tue May 24, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject:
Quick review: we are on private property and the owner is returning at which point he's going to weed his garden.
Before I announce the winner later I wanted to explain the story about the cabin.
Quote:
Mike is a wealthy business who owns a fabulous hunting lodge in the mountains called the Wildcat. Mike offers use of the cabin to his sucessful salepeople as was the case with top producer Jim. But there is one problem and Jim is instructed not to use the gas stove.
Jim, wife Betty and 4 kids (2 are theirs) head for their 1 week outing to the "Cat". Day1 everyones happy. Day2, Betty is unhappy because she can't use the stove and Jim can't explain why. Day3, Betty is getting mad and insists that Jim calls Mike. Jim does not want to question Mike's instructions. Unhappy Betty loses her interest in you know what. Day4, only the kids are enjoying the camp. Day5, Jim decides to play with the stove while the fam is out hiking, it works! (Wait till the guys at the office find out how smart Jim is; better food, naked wife and he has learned that the boss just doesn't like having to buy the gas). 10 o'clock, kids in bed, bellies full and plenty of smiles.
The last thing Jim would discribe if he could, was the hot fireplace, a hot wife and ....the smell of gas!
The owner Mike is strait up. He simply thought there might be a gas issue and wanted everyone to be safe.
Betty, she's a problem. You can picture her saying to Jim, "this oven should work, it's ruining my vacation! Drive towards town until you get a cell signal, call and tell your boss you have to get the stove working!"
Now, what are the bounderies of Betty's vacation? They are whatever her wicked imagination conjurs up because she created the ownership! In this case, she is going to leverage sex in order to get Jim to get something more from the boss! In the process, it destroys her entire family, two neighbor kids and the cabin.
So, no argument would have worked in 1856. But it illustrates the point that if God wishes to share his universe, which he does, then it starts with Him as the owner. If instructed to manage, manage according to his instructions. Now, we can't save the planet now can we? No. But, we can use worldly wealth [we took from God] to make friends but there is only so much time. The word of God is the lamp, the oil,our generosity.
Joined: May 15, 2005 Posts: 37 Location: Harrisburg, PA, USA
Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 2:57 am Post subject:
Sorry, I fell asleep and missed my deadline! Anyway....
The winner of the $200 is "accept_death".
There were so many great responses I went beyond the stated rules, choosing a
winner based on something I found in this book...
Quote:
"In our modern culture a name is nothing more than an
identifier, usually chosen by our parents because they like
the sound of the name or it is the name of a favorite
relative or ancestor. This is not true of the ancient
cultures, such as the Hebrews, where a name was a
representation of whom the individual was, based on his
character and function.
One of the major differences between our Western culture
and the Eastern culture of the ancient Hebrews is how
someone or something is described. The Hebrew was not
so concerned with the appearance of someone or
something, as he was with its function".
Thank you one and all. I would now like to end the contest with this short parable
and discussion between a Pharisees named Nicodemus and Jesus.
So what is the answer then? What could someone have possibly have said in the past that would have stopped people from exploiting oil?
And what is this trick you talk about?
Also I take it you believe in the rapture. _________________ Hello, my name is Rax. I live in the Amazon jungle with a bunch of women. We are super eco feminists and our favourite passtimes are dangling men by their ankles and discussing peak oil. - apparently
I guess he means he chose accept_death because he likes his screen name.
I think that's bending his own rules beyond the point they have any meaning.
Yeah. That seems a bit odd to me as well. Regardless, I enjoy a good mental exercise and trying to "sell" 1850 people on exponential growth issues certainly brought up some good ideas.
For the record, all the religious connections in my post only went towards convincing the 1850's mind. I don't believe that anything I think or see has any reality to it, much less nebulous and ethereal concepts like "god" or "religion."
Accept_Death, let us know if you ever get that 200 bucks. _________________ EntropyFails
"Little prigs and three-quarter madmen may have the conceit that the laws of nature are constantly broken for their sakes." -- Friedrich Nietzsche
Hmm, and the only reason I picked this name was because it was a reaction to the whole "survivalist" mentality that goes along with end of the world scenario's such as PO. It came to me after reading the thread about "resignation", also in the "Pshychology" forum. Didn't quite view the lucrative potential of it... ah well I'm not complaining. We'll see if the money does in fact arrive. If it does I will kick something back to the upkeep of this website.
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