I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Then you tell me why the FBI has not released the Pentagon gas station video.
Maybe they lost it, who knows. Maybe it's irrelevant. Maybe it ended up being blank and unusable. Maybe it didn't show the impact and was deemed useless. WHO EFFING CARES???? There are infinite legitimate reasons why they wouldn't have released it, but if you're convinced that the reasons are conspiratory, none of them matter, the only possible reason is that it shows a missile or a military jet or whatever you imagine must be on there (in HD of course, not crappy barely visible black and white like real gas station surveilanace films).
There were HUNDREDS OF EYEWITNESSES who saw what happened at the Pentagon. I know a few of them personally. Many of these people are military and former military who know the difference between a miltiary jet and a freaking 757.
But of course they must all be part of the conspiracy.
Joined: Aug 13, 2004 Posts: 435 Location: Hiding from the All-Seeing Eye
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:31 pm Post subject:
PhilBiker wrote:
Maybe they lost it, who knows.
This is actually pretty believable. Incompotence.......sure that's possible. I'd believe that.......in all seriousness our govt. isn't short of that. Regardless of what kind of plane that was, that was one helluva pilot at the controls.
However, any repremands for anyone on that day do to incompotence?
Nope. George Tennet got a medal for his efforts.
And WTC #7? Got hundreds of engineering friends that believe a steel-structure 47 story building can collapse due to fire? _________________ "Your failure to be informed does not make me a wacko." - John Loeffler
December 23, 2012
Last edited by Riddick on Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
BTW, of course it is good to have a healthy suspicion of government and media, I'm quite familiar with their long history of collusion and deception. However, you can go too far the other way, where you believe virtually anything that comes from the "alternative" media or anything that criticizes the government. That road is just as dangerous and ignorant as the one where people believe everything that CNN and Fox News tells them.
Joined: Aug 13, 2004 Posts: 435 Location: Hiding from the All-Seeing Eye
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject:
PhilBiker wrote:
BTW, of course it is good to have a healthy suspicion of government and media, I'm quite familiar with their long history of collusion and deception. However, you can go too far the other way, where you believe virtually anything that comes from the "alternative" media or anything that criticizes the government. That road is just as dangerous and ignorant as the one where people believe everything that CNN and Fox News tells them.
Yes, I agree with you here. Anything that big dealing with an enormous amount of money and power is suspect in my eyes. _________________ "Your failure to be informed does not make me a wacko." - John Loeffler
I mean, the building collapsing is not quite that odd, but collapsing so neatly?
No. Why should anyone find that odd? Gravity pulls downward. The WTC towers were build around a central supporting core, with a supporting outer structure, and floors spanned between the two to transfer loads. With the floors weakened by fire, the outer skins weakened by the crash, the central column was basically the only thing holding the building together. The floors pancake, riding the whole shebang down. If you watch the footage of WTC2s collapse, you'll notice that the top 30 floors actually tilt forward towards the weakened members outer support members (walls), thus breaking the support members on the other side (you can see the outer supportb buckle seconds before the collapse on the video). Only then do the top 30 floors start to pancake onto the bottom, one floor at a time, building up momentum along the way. Even a few seconds after the collapse you can see the central core still standing until the rest of the building pulls it down. The central core, when it finally collapse, didn't fall neatly at all, but collapsed across WTC 7 causing enormous structural damage.
Stuff like that is more compelling to me than some nutcake's unfounded speculation. Of course you will now trump out web sites where "engineers" state that it couldn't have happened and whatever. It will go on ad nauseum. What it comes down to is real critical thinking and the ability to judge the credibility of a source.
Also, the real beauty of a conspiracy is that almost by definition it doesn't require evidence! If you really want to believe you can close your eyes like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz and say "Bush knew Bush knew Bush knew" and no amount of evidence can possibly debunk the claims. That's the circular logic of conspiracy thought.
Last edited by PhilBiker on Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:49 pm; edited 4 times in total
Joined: Aug 13, 2004 Posts: 435 Location: Hiding from the All-Seeing Eye
Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:44 pm Post subject:
I think you'll come across better to people if you don't label them as "nutcakes" because this is a highly sensitive subject to a lot of people. I can't help but think that people who thought the Earth was flat were called "nutcakes" at one point in time too. What I'm getting at is that Dr. Griffin has been a respected scholar for over 30 years and hardly fits the description of a tin foil hat wearing loon. Congresswoman McKinney and Senator Mark Dayton have also questioned the DOD and NORAD about stuff like this. I don't think that makes them nuts.
Yes, the Internet is filled with people with all kinds of opinions but even if you believe the official story, then why the hell didn't we go after Saudi Arabia? After all, weren't 14 of the 19 hijackers from Saudia Arabia? Or Egypt or Yemen? I believe the other hijackers were from those two countries. _________________ "Your failure to be informed does not make me a wacko." - John Loeffler
PhilBiker, your confusing "not believing in something" with "believing in something".
I don't believe the standard 911 conspiracy theory, which it is, and I don't believe in the 911 Commission's findings either. That doesn't make me a believer in something else. That makes me a skeptic. Do you understand now?
Extreme skepticism is not the same thing as belief. Most people seem to grasp that distinction much more easily than you do. _________________ "May you live in interesting times"
BTW, of course it is good to have a healthy suspicion of government and media, I'm quite familiar with their long history of collusion and deception. However, you can go too far the other way, where you believe virtually anything that comes from the "alternative" media or anything that criticizes the government. That road is just as dangerous and ignorant as the one where people believe everything that CNN and Fox News tells them.
What a disingenuous load of piffle. If you were really suspicious of the govt and media, you would be asking more questions instead of constructing strawmen by describing us as loony conspiracy theorists and then tearing us down.
Why don't you go print and say the same thing to those trying to get the word how about PO. Tell them they are kicking a dead horse.
Or you just partial to certain horses. ehh. Some "bug" you because they make you feel uncomfortable.
Don't like the topic dude, don't clik on it.
Pretty simple even for someone like you
edited for:
AS for Scientific American.
It is not a peer reviewed magazine for goodnes sakes Phillip. YOU believe anything with the word "science" in front. HMmm , like Scien hmmer tology. hehe. yea, could be just could be.
Its not even owned by American's anymore I don't think. who knows who is in control in todays media environs.
Holtzbrinck group of Germany bought them a few years back.
Last edited by SidneyTawl on Fri Jun 03, 2005 3:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13064 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:57 pm Post subject:
I'm gratified to see Shermer uses that favorite invective of sceptics, "codswallop." I would expect no less of him.
I've been quite convinced by some arguments that 9-11 was known about ahead of time, and simply nothing was done about it. So I'm afraid I can't agree with Shermer. It's not all codswallop.
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