Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
The connection is a POS. 30 seconds into the interview the sound is garbled. _________________ "By the time individuals discover that remaining resources will not be adequate for the next generation, the next generation has already been born. " David Price
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 2123 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:34 am Post subject:
Specop_007 wrote:
Of course we're becoming a facist state.
The journey started in 1934.
And I'll add, it was a Democrat who took the first step down the facist path we're walking now.
Which isnt to say there havent been a few Republican footsteps on the path either.
I would suggest that the journey began in 1861 when Lincoln (the first Republican) decided to trash the constitution and commence destruction of the notion of states' rights. A notion that the Supreme Court just laid to rest yesterday with their 6-3 decision against eleven states' medical marijuana laws.
killJOY wrote:
The connection is a POS. 30 seconds into the interview the sound is garbled.
It worked fine for me. It's a fascinating video clip.
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:01 am Post subject:
The final step of producing a totalitarian society is the destruction of the independent Judiciary. Job number one for the USA Judiciary is the protection of the covenants of the constitution. All judges are sworn defenders of the constitution. The Judicial branch is like the Jedi Knights of Star Wars. They were put in place by our founding fathers as a last line of defense against tyranny.
Today, some of these constitutional defenders are being labeled "Activist Judges," whatever that means. Like everyone else, judges are being intimidated by the neocons. Personally, I think we will pull through this modern day McCarthyism and emerge with lessons learned. However, unlike most on this site, I'm an optimist.
Of course we're becoming a facist state.
The journey started in 1934.
And I'll add, it was a Democrat who took the first step down the facist path we're walking now.
Which isnt to say there havent been a few Republican footsteps on the path either.
I would suggest that the journey began in 1861 when Lincoln (the first Republican) decided to trash the constitution and commence destruction of the notion of states' rights. A notion that the Supreme Court just laid to rest yesterday with their 6-3 decision against eleven states' medical marijuana laws.
killJOY wrote:
The connection is a POS. 30 seconds into the interview the sound is garbled.
It worked fine for me. It's a fascinating video clip.
You bring up a very good point Turtle. First off, I'm not saying both sides arent guilty here.
As to Lincoln, your absolutely right. The Civil war really had very little to do with slavery, and everything to do with the rights of states. The slavery issue was just a convienent excuse to engage in a war.
In 1934 FDR bassed the Machinegun Ban, which is why i reference that point. Theres a distinct difference between the rights of the states (Lost in the civil war) and the rights of the individual (lost in 1934).
The majority of Americans are brainwashed and scared into believing this whole war on terror thing. My guess is that the governement will implement a full police state after economic collapse in the US. Or even before that.. if there is another 'terrorist attack' on US soil.
The 9/11 attacks (aided by Bush's complacency) paved the way for a lot of bad changes in the US, but its been 4 years since the last Official terrorist attack. People will eventually tire of the war on terror and start questioning the governement's actions. In order to implement the next round of "Terror Laws" another attack will be required (possible with larger consequences to implement more draconian measures)
I believe the DC sniper and the Flight 587 crash were also terrorist related but the US was too economically sensitive to have them labelled as such. If the US economy crashes (typically in October or November). There will be no economic reason's to cover up real terrorist acts in the US. As a matter of fact there will be lots of reasons to expose and exaggerate terrorism to establish tighter control during hard economic times.
Remeber George Orwell, to maintane control you must maintane fear _________________ Angry yet?
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 2123 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:36 am Post subject:
Specop_007 wrote:
You bring up a very good point Turtle. First off, I'm not saying both sides arent guilty here.
As to Lincoln, your absolutely right. The Civil war really had very little to do with slavery, and everything to do with the rights of states. The slavery issue was just a convienent excuse to engage in a war.
Slavery was Lincolns' WMD scam, as it were.
Quote:
In 1934 FDR bassed the Machinegun Ban, which is why i reference that point. Theres a distinct difference between the rights of the states (Lost in the civil war) and the rights of the individual (lost in 1934).
I'm no fan of FDR either. I hold both FDR and Lincoln responsible for leading the assault on the Bill of Rights ... as you say, Lincoln against the states and FDR against individuals.
Of course let's not forget Nixon declaing the ""war on Drugs" in 71; a "war" waged against US citizens by every president since then (though an arguemnt could be made that Jimmy Carter was not as enthusiastic as the others).
I would suggest that the journey began in 1861 when Lincoln (the first Republican) decided to trash the constitution and commence destruction of the notion of states' rights.
Started before that. I think to understand where the US is today, you really have to go all the way back to Shay's rebellion and the Fedralist/Anti-Fedralist battle. The Shays, politically, looked for all the world like todays libertarian militia types. The were big into self-sufficiency, the barter economy, and traditional living. Most of the were Revolutionary war veterans and believed strongly in the message of the Declaration of Independence and the various political pamphlets that circulated before and during the war. They found themselves being heavily taxed and then thrown in debtors prison and their land seized by state governments that were giving huge sums of money to city businessmen. They clung to the Declaration's statement that when a government is destructive to the needs of the people, they have a right to "alter or abolish it". They petitioned the government for redress of grievances, and found their cries falling on deaf ears. So they took their flintlocks down to the courthouse, and said "Debtor's court is closed till you fix this situation." The state governments tried to raise armies to quash the Shay's but found that almost all the common people either had family in the Shay's or supported the Shay's, or both. No one would join their army. It was precisely this issue that stimulated the Constitutional Congress and the passage of the US constitution. They needed to raise a national army, so they could take commoners from Virginia up to Massachusets to fight the Shays. The anti-fedralists predicted that the US Government would turn into almost exactly what it has turned/is turning into. Among the most outspoken anti-fedralists was Patrick Henry. They eventually lost out to aristocrats like George Washington and James Madison desperate to squash the Shays and increase their wealth.
The final step of producing a totalitarian society is the destruction of the independent Judiciary. Job number one for the USA Judiciary is the protection of the covenants of the constitution. All judges are sworn defenders of the constitution. The Judicial branch is like the Jedi Knights of Star Wars. They were put in place by our founding fathers as a last line of defense against tyranny.
Today, some of these constitutional defenders are being labeled "Activist Judges," whatever that means. Like everyone else, judges are being intimidated by the neocons. Personally, I think we will pull through this modern day McCarthyism and emerge with lessons learned. However, unlike most on this site, I'm an optimist.
My God KingCoal, I agree with you!! Noooooooooooooooo, this can't beeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!
Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 2123 Location: Along the banks of the muddy Mississippi
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:52 am Post subject:
smallpoxgirl wrote:
TheTurtle wrote:
I would suggest that the journey began in 1861 when Lincoln (the first Republican) decided to trash the constitution and commence destruction of the notion of states' rights.
Started before that. I think to understand where the US is today, you really have to go all the way back to Shay's rebellion and the Fedralist/Anti-Fedralist battle.
Fair enough.
But just for fun, I'll call your Shay Rebellion and raise you another 8000 years. Let's just move to the war on human rights in general (rather than just an assault on the rights of US citizens) and say it began in ancient Sumeria, ca 6000 BCE, when the first Farmer-King started coming up with ways to make the other people plant and harvest his crops so that he would get richer.
I would suggest that the journey began in 1861 when Lincoln (the first Republican) decided to trash the constitution and commence destruction of the notion of states' rights.
Started before that. I think to understand where the US is today, you really have to go all the way back to Shay's rebellion and the Fedralist/Anti-Fedralist battle.
Fair enough.
But just for fun, I'll call your Shay Rebellion and raise you another 8000 years. Let's just move to the war on human rights in general (rather than just an assault on the rights of US citizens) and say it began in ancient Sumeria, ca 6000 BCE, when the first Farmer-King started coming up with ways to make the other people plant and harvest his crops so that he would get richer.
One cant really discuss human rights outside of America because, as far as I'm aware (And I'm sure we're not the only ones) America is the only government to have penned a founding document and amendments to it that gave the Rights our Constitution and Bill of Rights give to us. Essentially, other people may have been free, but I dont believe any people were given as much freedoms as the American people were.
Joined: Aug 13, 2004 Posts: 435 Location: Hiding from the All-Seeing Eye
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:51 pm Post subject:
We're already there and by the time the rest of the sleeping American people realize what has happened (and is continuing to happen) it will be too late.
The fear propaganda machine is running at full speed these days.
And you are contributing to it more than most.
Ok, you're right. Everything is just fine and dandy. There is no Patriot Act. There will be no National ID card system. Americans have more rights than ever before, and the Constitution still exists. Why should we be worried? Everything is gonna be just fine...
One cant really discuss human rights outside of America because, as far as I'm aware (And I'm sure we're not the only ones) America is the only government to have penned a founding document and amendments to it that gave the Rights our Constitution and Bill of Rights give to us.
Well, I think the first such formal documentation of human rights was the Magna Carta.
It was not a "founding document" but could probably be considered to be an amendment. The US bill of rights has to be understood as a compromise. It was a concession by the Federalist to the anti-Federalists. Sort of a written campaign promise if you will. "See we're not really trying to form a fascist government. Pinkie swear."
I certainly won't argue with you Turtle that human history has been a long downward slide over thousands of years. I do think that the rhetoric of the American Revolution really was something unique and new, and I think it almost went in a new direction. The people almost internalized and made real the rhetoric of the Declaration. The Constitution and the the military destruction of the Shays mark the end of people really believing in and trying to act on the promises of the Declaration. "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Hapiness" from the Declaration becomes "Life, Liberty, and Property" in the constitution. Since then it has pretty much all been about Property, and there has been a stready decline in Life, Liberty, and freedom to Pursue Happiness. I think that the police state was pretty much set as an inevitability the day the constitution was signed. Patrick Henry tried to warn us.
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