Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
And if the Force in Star Wars was in fact this ZPE ? Pure energy fluids surrounding everything, controlled by the mind to make stuff levitate!
Yeah, cool, maybe David Copperfield already know how to do all these stuff! Maybe he will save the world!
David Copperfield has an identical twin brother. _________________ Gravity is not a force, it is a boundary layer.
Everything is coincident.
Love: the state of suspended anticipation.
To get any appreciable distance from the Earth in
a sensible amount of time, you must lie.
I find it hard to believe that this topic made two pages let alone that ZPE actually exists.
anyways, anybody care to put up what ZPE is, or is its description as elusive as its feasiblilty (I'd do it myself but i think I've wasted enough time on this topic just writing this reply ) _________________ Angry yet?
Joined: Jul 18, 2004 Posts: 198 Location: S. Yorkshire, UK
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 11:44 am Post subject:
[q]I find it hard to believe that this topic made two pages let alone that ZPE actually exists. [/q]
There are a number of scientific theories that predict ZPE, or theories that are very neatly explained by ZPE, but without it are almost incomprehensible.
The amount of ZPE in an empty volume of space can be calculated and is absolutely vast - a completely ridiculous number (something like there's enough energy in the space the size of a coffee cup, to boil and evaporate all the water on earth). However, so far no one has managed to harness its energy, nor indeed is there even a satisfactory theory which would allow the ZP energy to be tapped.
There are astronomical observations and theories that lead to a suspicion that ZPE may be at work. E.g. Stephen Hawking's theory of black holes suggests that they are able to tap the ZP energy and convert it into pure matter. There are a few problems for a terrestrial implementation of this:
1) The energy tapped is only a loan. The black hole has to pay the energy back by destroying it's own matter and returning the energy back to the ZP vacuum. As a result black holes a believed to 'evaporate' after a while because all their matter is destroyed.
2) Capturing the ZP energy requires powerful forces. The forces required would likely disrupt the entire solar system.
3) The energy actually capturable is quite low. Even supermassive black holes - some of the most powerful objects in the universe - can caputure only small amounts of power: around 0.0000000000000000000000000000001 Watts.
Zero point energy's bunk. Most of the people supporting ZPE (Like Tom Bearden
and his (perpetual motion) MEG device) are either cranks, crackpots, deluded, or
outright frauds.
My conclusion after researching this entire area.
Sure, they can talk a good talk. These people would do well writing the pseudo
science dialogs for Star Trek.
But they can't walk the walk. Look, if there was anything to these devices, which
have supposedly been around for years, they'd be selling like hotcakes.
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 1:48 pm Post subject: maybe... just maybe!
The universe is a fine example of zero point energy in action. With regard to the laws of thermodynamics, surely they should be called the 'theories' of thermodynamics, to call something a law is suspicious in itself.
For anyone wishing to push the envelope of their belief system (aw go on, just for a little while) then do check out this
link.
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: maybe... just maybe!
merecat wrote:
The universe is a fine example of zero point energy in action. With regard to the laws of thermodynamics, surely they should be called the 'theories' of thermodynamics, to call something a law is suspicious in itself.
For anyone wishing to push the envelope of their belief system (aw go on, just for a little while) then do check out this
link.
Energy, light - itself, must somehow be 'eternal', that's what the universe tells us.
The cosmos is a game, but it does appear there are certain rules or locks
or limitations on the flow and transformation of energy.
The first three laws are the best 'big picture' laws we've been able to come
up with regarding energy flow in the universe.
If the ZPE people have an extension or adjunct to the first three established
'laws' of thermodynamics that's fine. But they have yet to provide a working
ZPE device, so their claims remain imagination and conjecture.
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Zero point energy (ZPE) - a new energy source
Graeme wrote:
New science is opening the way to fuel-free power and propulsion and a turnaround of Global Warming. Conventional wisdom suggests we will be dependent on oil, gas, coal and nuclear power for the foreseeable future. Alternative energy is thought to be limited to solar, wind, fuel-cells and biofuels, etc. However, a revolutionary family of energy conversion technologies has emerged that is likely to prove extremely important. This breakthrough requires no fuel and produces no pollution. It opens a path to cost competitive electric power, automotive, and later aerospace propulsion.
Research by press releases or even worse, websites, doesn´t work. I´ll believe in it once I see a working prototype or the idea published in a mainstream peer-reviewed journal. While ZPE does exist and there have been ideas proposed to extract it, none have been realistic.
These guys are proposing Mach 4 planes before extracting a single Joule of energy. They sound more like the Baghdad Bob than scientists.
Magnetic Power Inc. is Nearing Pre-Production Stage with Zero Point Energy Modules
Modules built with off-the-shelf components are expected to generate electricity anywhere, any time, for less than 1 cent per kilowatt-hour. One kW modules expected for market early next year.
SEBASTOPOL, CALIFORNIA, USA -- At their present rate of progress, Magnetic Power Inc. (MPI) says they could have 1 kW Magnetic Power Modules™, anticipated to generate electricity for less than one cent per kilowatt-hour, ready for sale by strategic partners next year. "Nothing else would come close," says Mark Goldes," chairman and CEO...
NASA data suggests there is far more than 20 times the Zero Point Energy available anyplace on earth than solar energy at the peak of the day, and it is available 24/7...
In the near-term, MPI is focusing on pre-production prototypes of Demonstration Devices, which can be made available to schools and universities, as well as a 1 kW generator. MPI expects that these will be manufactured by strategic partners under license next year. Another early application would be portable or emergency generators. Additionally, early on, a few linked modules could provide enough power for homes...
Goldes cites a number of reasons why he believes we do not have a lot of time as a nation or world in terms of energy stability, and that the need for alternative, clean energy is not just a matter of economics, but of grave urgency. For example, he cites a number of extremely well qualified experts who have stated that a shortage of natural gas may cause major shortages of electricity in the United States as early as next year.
I have been researching zero point energy for a while and I really like the math behind it as a unified theory in physics. Zero point energy resonates at 10^30 hertz. Plug that into the below equation will tell you how much energy that is. There is a lot of energy just floating around everywhere. It is about time we put some of it to use.
Reading from the last paragraph has me worried though. Will we have enough time to deploy this before the window runs out and we end up with chaos and die off?
Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2005 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: ZPE modual cost and EROEI
Like any new technology the first prototypes are going to cost over a million dollars and then the first production models costing about a tenth as much as the prototypes. Second run models then costing half as much as the first run models. This is were the time window comes into play. Will there be enough time develope and deploy these things on any sort of scale before the age of cheap energy ends.
When these things get going they will likely have an EROEI that is twenty times greater then solar voltaics. So maybe we are looking at EROEI around 25 or so if the modual runs near maximium efficeincy. Not as good as light crude but still good.
From the theory as I understand it ZPE can only be teleported half the width of atom.
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