For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: The problem with modern science is Consensus
Quote:
The main problem is that we are too stupid too accept zero point energy.
I was thinking just the same thing. Modern Science is operating under a precept of consensus. The scientific establishment has already come to the consensus that ZPE preposterous. The debate for them is over. Put away the experiments. Shelve the theories and hide the evidence. The scientific establishment has taken on the role of mother Church in supressing the modern day heritics. No scientist wants to be labled a heritic; thats why few scientists are even willing discuss ZPE let alone do serious research on it.
All it takes is ONE rouge scientist with reproducable results to shatter the glass ceiling of consensus. It has happened before. Any child can point out that South America and Africa fit nicely together like a puzzel but when the theory of continental drift was proposed in the 1870s it was called preposterous and nonsence. To the establishment continents don't move and there was huge scientific consensus that they don't. Time and time again continental drift was proposed and rejected by the establishment until 1961 when proof was found at the bottom of the Atlantic that the continents were indeed moving apart. It took the scientific establishment 80 some odd years to recognize what any child sees on map. The establishment didn't go along with the theory but had to be dragged kicking and screaming from its' preconcieved notions.
I fear civilization may have to fall to get us out of the scientific conundrum the establisment has gotten us into now. We have Thermodynamics operating on its' own set of rules. We have Quantum Mechanics working under its' own rules. And then we have Relativity operating under yet another set of rules. What nonesence is this? There should only ONE set of rules to govern all the universe. ZPE is the key but to accept it means we have to throw out most of old rules and upturn the entire establishment on its' head. It is not going to happen on its' own. This civilization and its' scientific establishment will fall under its' own weight first. I hope that a few scientists do understand ZPE and do get these devices working. Not to save this civilization but to build a new civilization that will rise out of ashes of the old.
Oh well, it was nice to read a good joke before I go to bed.
I read the site, but I didn't find anything humorous about it. I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong, but it doesn't come off in a joking manner. _________________ "If humans don't control their numbers, nature will." -Pimentel
"There is not enough trash to go around for everyone," said Banrel, one of the participants in the cattle massacre.
"George W. Bush loves poor people. He keeps making more of them." -unkn
Joined: May 17, 2005 Posts: 386 Location: Northeast Ohio
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:45 am Post subject:
See, here's the main issue with ZPE as I see it. The second law of thermodynamics states that entropy exists, and it's a very fundamental law. Another poster said that there's a possibility it can be "thrown out the window". I had that same discussion with my father, the argument being "Physics is an evolving field, what if we're all wrong?" He basically said then prove it! Because for all the webpages, papers and theories, these first 2 basic fundamental laws have always been proven to be correct. The previous webapge is indeed a bit hard to read, but if the diagrams of devices work, why hasn't it been built and tested by the scientific community, and the man stands to make a fortune to rival Gates? Any time there is energy transfer, you will have entropy. And if you look closely, there's entropy everywhere. The Heinberg book does a good job of talking about entropy in natural systems.
The concept of QVC is accepted by physicists for the most part. Harnessing or even *testing* that energy however is another story. Maybe in the far future if we're not too busy growing food and keeping warm. =]
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:57 am Post subject: Thermodynamics is not a fundamental law
If Thermodynamics was a fundamental law the Universe as we know it would NOT exist. When the universe was exactly zero seconds old all the energy was contained in one uniform singular point and entropy was at 100% meaning no usefull work could be done. If entropy could never decrease then galaxies, stars, and planets could never exist. The Universe would have always remained at 100% entropy with all energy uniformly spread out. According to Thermodynamics the Universe as we know it technically can't exist.
The reason the Universe we know does exist is because for the few first 10^-40 seconds of its' existance the entire Universe was smaller then an Atom. At that size the Universe was exempt for the laws of thermodynamics and was instead governed by the laws of Quantum Mechanics. Quantum Fluctuations pushed the uniform energy into dense spots and diffuse spots and the entropy of the universe decreased. As the Universe expanded those dense spots became entire galaxies and fluctuations in those dense spots became stars.
Thermodynamics is a situational law only applying in some cases and not in others. Thermodynamics does not apply to: atoms, sub-atomic particles, black holes, quantum singularities, or quantum fluctuations. Thermodynamics also don't apply to any object's movement defined by relativity. Thermodynamics assumes only the newtonian laws of motion apply. Thermodynamics is not the whole truth of physics.
To find the whole truth science must continue to expand its' knowledge base beyond what is already known and excepted. Research into ZPE is the next step in achieving that goal. If science does not go beyond what already known and challenge what is excepted the goal will never be reached and science will stagnate and die.
Amazing, how to demonstrate ZPE in your kitchen! I wonder why most of the physics labs spend millions of dollars on expensive highly precise equipments!
Falconoffury wrote:
The only reason why this energy isn't mainstream is because it's one of the most highly guarded secrets in our world. The world economy would be in chaos if this got out.
Maybe because nobody has been able to independently reproduce his results elsewhere! It seems that all this effects are working only if John Hutchingson is around! Experience replicability is one of the pillars of modern science. It's the same problem with cold fusion. Please don't use a conspirancy theory as an excuse!
Falconoffury wrote:
For all our arrogance, our understanding of the universe is idiotic. Zero point energy is obviously the source of all creation within the universe, and we probably won't accept it until sometime after the fossil fuel age collapses.
If the laws of thermodynamics can be disproven, we have to be willing to put aside our arrogance and accept it. The fact that we can get energy out of empty space should be all the proof needed to be able to throw thermodynamics out the window.
Quantum theory is a zoo for weird effects: tunnel effect, particle entanglement, time travel, etc.. Yes the Casimir effect is interesting and could potentially have a measured impact on a microscale (ex: MEMS devices) but it does not mean it's a source of energy. Laws of thermodynamics operate at macroscale (our scale) and results from the statistical behavior of a large group of molecules or atoms. I don't see the pertinence of the ZPE "theory" in eventually invalidating laws of thermodynamics. _________________ ______________________________________
http://GraphOilogy.blogspot.com
Last edited by khebab on Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
He basically said then prove it! Because for all the webpages, papers and theories, these first 2 basic fundamental laws have always been proven to be correct.
I don't agree with that. I agree with what Novus said, that we have several sets of rules conflicting with one another. It's obvious to me that some laws of physics are being defended due to a conflict of interest. Scientists are trying to maintain a certain reputation, and this leads to a resistance to new ideas in the scientific community. _________________ "If humans don't control their numbers, nature will." -Pimentel
"There is not enough trash to go around for everyone," said Banrel, one of the participants in the cattle massacre.
"George W. Bush loves poor people. He keeps making more of them." -unkn
Amazing, how to demonstrate ZPE in your kitchen! I wonder why most of the physics labs spend millions of dollars on expensive highly precise equipments!
It is because some ZPE devices are amazingly simple to build. It is just that the knowledge to build them has lost or supressed. Some ZPE devices might even have been known about in ancient times.
A man named Ed Leedskalnin without heavy equipment built a castle out of the Florida Coral in the 1930s.
How could a 100lb man lift 50 ton stones with nothing but hand tools? He claimed to have discovered the secrets used to build the pyramids. Some locals claim he had super natural powers. As a scientist I do not believe in Magic. There were a few accounts that he had a generator of some kind that created electromagnetic fields that made the stones as light air filled balloons. There is only one type of generator that take away the inertia of the stones and that is ZPE.
At the temple of Baalbeck are stones so large there is no modern crane in existance that can move them.
Yet without any modern equipment the ancients were able to place the stones with the accuracy of millimeters.
All over the world you can see such monuments but the technogy that built them seems to be forgotten. Ed Leedskalnin rediscovered the technology only to take it with him to his grave.
In the theory of ZPE anti-gravity generators are possible. The technology as it exists today is supressed but one day the ZPE tinkerers are going to get right again.
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 76 Location: California
Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject:
Novus wrote:
It is because some ZPE devices are amazingly simple to build. It is just that the knowledge to build them has lost or supressed.
The Hutchinson device is neither lost nor suppressed: there's a video of it on the web!!!
What we don't have is a detailed description of how to build one, so we can test for ourselves whether or not it returns more energy than it consumes.
Novus, why do you think this is? Do you think the Powers That Be have allowed him to post a video, but not instructions on how to build one? Why would they do this?
There are lot of people out there working on this. Each one is holding a little peice of the puzzle unable to see the whole for what it is. ZPE theory is so earth shattering and so world changing no one can comprehend what it all means. Perhaps if the right people can talk to each other and look at each others' research this ancient riddle can be solved.
Does that mean that you think that Hutchinson does not have a device that extracts ZPE?
If that's the case, what's the point of the video?
Avo
There is no doubt that Hutchinson has a device that extracts ZPE but it is imposible to tell if he is getting a positive EROEI. Hutchinson is only holding a small peice of this puzzle and he is not sharing it by telling us everything he knows. There are a lot of independent people working on this.
Jon De'Pew is another name you can add to the list of ZPE researchers. He is pursueing the other side of the equation by trying to recreate Leedskalnin's anti-gravity device.
I see the riddle of ZPE as a test for humanity. Clues to answer this riddle are scattered all around the world and a few people who understand what they are have picked up on them. Tesla, Einstein, Feynman, Casimir, Sparnaay, Sakharov, Moller, Naudin, Leedskalnin, De'Pew, Golds, and Hutchinson are all holding pieces to the ZPE puzzle. Looking at just one man's work and his clues we cannot fully understand ZPE and unlock all its' secrets. Only by looking at all the pieces can we see the whole picture and solve the riddle.
Joined: May 17, 2005 Posts: 386 Location: Northeast Ohio
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:33 am Post subject:
As far as Leedskalnin, I did a bit of research on him, hell I even bought his pamphlet. No one knows what the deal with him is. There was indeed a generator found, but it was basically a standard flux generator for making electricity. What lead me to him was my studies of *harmonic vibrations" and their effects on matter. Tesla was onto it, in fact harmonics were the basis of his earthquake machine, which was tested to great effect. (it almost brought down an entire building) In addition, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge was destroyed from natural harmonics from the wind whistling around it. It's why soldiers break step when crossing bridges. Anyways, in another book I read about alternate theories for the Giza Pyramid, references were made to Leedskalnin, and the possibility he was using a combination of harmonics and electromagnets to make coral lighter.
Is there any creedence to this? I dunno. I am not the physisicst. I bet if I told my dad about my experiments trying to find the resonant frequencies of a slab of soapstone using Soundforge and salt crystals he'd have a good laugh. Maybe that's an advantage for discovery, not being rooted in "laws" of the physical world. But from what I can tell so far, laws are called that for a reason. All the experimentation that had been done has upheld them.
Stuff like the enormous stones of the temples of the world do indeed baffle me. I believe they are one of the greatest mysteries of the world. For a really well put together book about what Giza *might* have been, check out this book. I found it to be "out of the box".
Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 12:19 pm Post subject: Ancient Mystries of ZPE
Ed Leedskalnin was very close to discovering the ultimate power of Zero Point Energy. He understood how the great blocks of the ancient world could be moved. The ancients knew about something called sacred geometry. Leedskalnin rediscovered this technology using what he called the sweet sixteen harmonic vibration that could harness cosmic electromagnetic fluctuations. He knew this cosmic fluctuations were perpetual in nature and had unlimited power to do work.
Clues were left all over the ancient world that pointed to harmonic vibrations. It was said in the bible that the walls of Jericho were distroyed with trumpet blasts. The Great Pyramids, the temple of Baalbeck, and Karnak were all built with harmonic vibrations. To the ancients these harmonic vibrations were the pulse of the universe. To build the great monuments of the world using these vibrations they developed a science called sacred geometry.
To build his castle Leedskalnin built his Sweet 16 generator to the specifications of the ancient sacred geometry.
His generator uses the same sacred geometry that is used in the Antikythera device found in an ancient shipwreck not far from the temple of Baalbeck. The antikythera device may have had a significant role in the construction of the temple of Baalbeck.
Putting some of the pieces of this puzzle together its' starting to make more sence. The way I understand it sacred geometry is the way ZPE can be magnified so we can see and use it in the real world.
At the atomic level ZPE looks like this:
Magnified through Sweet 16 sacred geometry in the real world ZPE appears like this:
I am now convinced the harmonics of sacred geometry are the keys to unlocking the power of ZPE. Think about it. If troops marching lockstep over a bridge can cause ever more resonating vibrations through the structure to bring it down then so can ZPE be enhanced under the right frequency. Matter normally does not resonate at the frequency of ZPE. But with sacred geometry matter can be arranged in such a way that is does resonate with ZPE. It works on the same priciple of buildings in an earthquake. The most dangerous buildings to be in during an earth quake are buildings that are 10 floors tall because those building resonate at the frequency of earthquakes. The difference is sacred geometry aranges matter to resonate at the frequence of ZPE. Matter reasonating at the frequency of ZPE would be like a billion troops marching lockstep over a single atom. These resonating atoms would have almost no footprint in the ZPE fields and appear as if they had no mass. That was how the ancients were able to move such massive blocks.
This could be the beginings of new theoritical basis to design new ZPE devices that can extract near infinate amounts of energy.
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I wonder why most of the physics labs spend millions of dollars on expensive highly precise equipments!
