Solar assisted hybrid cars ??

sicophiliac · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:07 pm Post subject: Solar assisted hybrid cars ??

I doubt I am the first person to think of this but what about creating a hybrid car that uses solar cells on the body panels to recharge the batteries ? Not something that would be dependant on the solar energy entirely but something that would be able to use it as it came along to increase fuel efficiency. I think if your cars parked in a sunny parking lot all day while you are at work this might just be able to make a substantial improvement in efficiency and reduce fuel consumption.

Geology_Guy · Heavy Crude Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 253

I thought of the same thing a while back. Why solar panels are not already on hybrids? Cost maybe? Not enough out of the box thinking?

SolarDave · Heavy Crude Joined: May 19, 2005 Posts: 377

A square meter of cells would provide anough power in half a day to charge the hybrid's battery pack. Unfortunately, that's good for maybe one 0-100 KPH run, and it would add at least USD$500 to the cost of the car.

Moving 1000 kg of vehicle along with the 50-100 kg of driver is the problem. It takes LOTS of energy to move the vehicle. As a bicycle proves, the driver is quite capable of moving themselves - at a moderate pace.

The_Toecutter · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 1731

Caoimhan · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 10, 2005 Posts: 562

One problem with it might be in keeping the clear coating on the panels clear. Moving at high speeds close to the ground (with associated dust and grit) causes abrasion and build-up of road grime that you wouldn't normally get with a panel sitting on a roof-top 30 feet above the ground.

The_Toecutter · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 1731

That grime would have a very negligable effect on the amount of power getting to the panels. If you slopped mud on them, however, that's a different scenario.
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FoxV · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:02 pm Post subject:

I think the solar power hybrid is a good idea as well considering most cars sit roasting in the sun for 8 hours a day.

however solar cells are way to expensive to justify it. (I have a site that says they can produce solar cells for $1/W, but I'm starting to question their claims about actually being in production.)

ultimately making a hybrid a plugin would be a much more cost effective improvement, and I think people should start demanding this feature before buying any more of them
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The_Toecutter · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 1731

Searching around on the internet archives, I would a very interesting article that speaks of the practicality of this solar car concept:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040619054815/www.benerridge.freeserve.co.uk/socar1.htm

Of course, the big issue, the cost of the solar panels, is not mentioned. I wish I had figures on what they would cost in high volume for automotive application. It might be able to work to an extent. A pure electric vehicle instead of a hybrid makes things even better.
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The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson

MarkR · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject:

I wonder if having the panels on a flat roof would significantly impair their efficiency. Maybe there needs to be a pop-up solar panel on the roof that can be tilted towards the South Smile

Currnently, PV solar technology is only really practical when used with a 2-axis solar tracking mount. A simple fixed elevation south-facing panel generally only achieves about 5 full-power hour equivalents per day, whereas a tracking module can achieve over 8 full-power hours per day in Summer.

While certainly not a viable solution in all geographic areas, this idea certainly shows some promise for areas with very sunny climate.

Finally, I have some concerns about overall EROEI for the panels - while domestic PV has the benefit of dumping excess power to the grid, in an car once the battery is full - the panels are providing no benefit, yet are aging. If you ensure sufficient spare capacity then you waste a lot of potential energy.

OldSprocket · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:27 pm Post subject:

I've looked over the U of Maine Black Bear solar pickup. This is all-solar, not a hybrid. The panels do indeed tilt left and right with a simple tracking controller and linear actuators. The extended ladder rack gives it a very large array, and it has a nighttime range of about 50 miles. There are batteries in the engine compartment and under the pickup bed. Moving all batteries to the back would clear some room for a small engine.

The_Toecutter · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 1731

I know about that truck. It was a Tour De Sol entry and posted on the electric vehicle discussion list. I think it would look very sexy painted camoflauge with a gunrack mounted to it loaded up with some assault rifles. Twisted Evil

_________________
The unnecessary felling of a tree, perhaps the old growth of centuries, seems to me a crime little short of murder. ~Thomas Jefferson

sicophiliac · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject:

Well ok I did a few really really rough calculations and at 12000 miles a year and gas at 3 dollars a gallon which shouldnt be more then a couple years off. With the claimed (this is based on Toecutters math) 8% improved efficiency it'd be a savings of something like 56 bucks a year. So thats obviously not economically viable at this time especially since that'd be under ideal conditions with plenty of sun and all. Maybe though if one had the roof of thier garage fully covered in solar cells, that energy stored in batteries to be drawn from while the car is parked inside at night along with a bit of solar assistance from panels on the car during the day we could get somewhere. Say 25 square meters of solar cells on the roof. That would produce optomistically again based on Toecutters math 2750 watts of power or enough to go almost 14 miles on a charge. Throw in a few extra miles from the solar cells on the car and you can get maybe 16-17 miles. Thats a savings of alittle less then a half gallon of fuel or maybe 1.25 cents a day X lets say 20 work days a month = 25.00 a month = 300 dollars a year. This being under ideal conditions we can probably cut in half due to variable weather conditions and storms ect to 150 bucks a year. So I guess that really wouldnt at this time justify the costs of the solar cells. If and when gas breaks 5 dollars a gallon or 10 dollars a gallon and solar cells improve efficiency a degree I suspect this might change.
Back to the issue of the fully electric car, I brought up the idea of using the hybrid instead of a EV mainly because the limited range of an electric car. They might be great for short trips but a hybrid would allow long distance travel thus a family or person wouldnt need two vehicles. But I was thinking, if the Prius runs at 200wh/ mile and from what I know weighs about 3600 lbs.. it wouldnt be hard to imagine a two seater car much like an Insight thats fully electric being about half the weight and then we could roughly double the range from the solar panels to an optomistic 30 + miles per charge maybe more depending on time of year ect running from solar panels sitting on the roof of garage. Thats enough for probably 75% of people out there commuting to and from work so that is doable, on a mass scale this could put a serious dent in our oil consumption.

sicophiliac · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:34 pm Post subject:

freshed the website and it posted this message twice so i deleted the second one, it wont let me edit with out typing anything so thats why i wrote this.

The_Toecutter · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Jun 18, 2005 Posts: 1731

sicophiliac · Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:46 pm Post subject:

Yeah I was just reading the other post in here about the electric Mitsubishi and the next generation lithium batteries with something like 400-600 mile range. Thats right up there with the range of a gas engines with the average sized fuel tank. That seems almost too good to be true, with the acception of long road trips across the country that could be a perfect substitute for a gas powered car. This might just be the biggest component of a plan to cope with peak oil while still keeping the economy going.