Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 1206 Location: Western US
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:50 am Post subject: Spouse/S.O. Tired of Hearing About P.O.
We went camping this weekend. There was a family next to us, very friendly they seemed like really nice people. I noticed they had a brand new SUV, still with temporary license plates, etc. So I said to my husband, "I feel bad for them. They don't know about peak oil. Think I should tell them?" (not that I would tell strangers...). "No," he said, "You should be happy for them that they don't know."
He's tired of hearing about it, tired of my glooming. Mostly I think he's tired of hearing me making suggestions and pleas that we move some of our investments into safer harbors.
The thing is that I've always been the laid back one, and he the worrier. He'd worry about our finances and I'd say things like, "We'll be fine, I'm not worried." And he'd get frustrated saying, "You never worry about anything!!" So in our 10 plus years together I'm the one who has never been concerned about the future.
He's basically recognizes P.O. as a problem but he doesn't really see terrible ramifications, and is kind of tired of hearing about it. From my standpoint, I see a (possibly) limited amount of time to make some changes (especially to investments, not that we have that much but I don't want us to lose them.)
But then I also start wondering if perhaps there ISN'T going to be an immiment problem, that we have a decade or two....??
Anyway, just kind of ranting. Anyone else have problems like this?
Joined: Aug 23, 2004 Posts: 710 Location: Frost Free in New Zealand
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Spouse/S.O. Tired of Hearing About P.O.
LadyRuby wrote:
Anyone else have problems like this?
No. I got divorced, custody of my three boys (my major investment) and left the country
As for a decade or two.. Well don't be one of those people trying to make that last buck
I'm paying heed to a little voice that told me many years ago to be prepared before I turn 50... March 2006 _________________ Let us make him who shall nourish and sustain us. What shall we do to be invoked; to be remembered in the earth.
We have tried with our first creatures but we could not make them venerate us.
So let us try to make obedient respectful beings who shall
LadyRuby,
Yes, from time to time Carlin gets a glazed over look in his eyes and tells me he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. At least once in the last six months, he's gone on strike on me and crashed for a weekend on the couch instead of helping with the animals and garden. He said he was "tired of farming" .
On one hand, he understands the need to prepare, and on the other, he doesn't want to think about all the conveniences that will be lost or hard to come by. Some days he wants to just get up and go to work without thinking about anything but what's on his plate that day. Some days he'll dive in and help setting up some system that we'll need.
It's all ebb and flow. There are certainly days I don't want to think about it either. Once in a while I wish I didn't know. Then reality sets in, and I'm glad I do know and have time and some limited means to prepare.
When my husband doesn't want to hear about it anymore, I give him a break. I just drop the subject in conversation. But, I don't stop preparing. Actions speak louder than words, and he sees how seriously I take this. Just about the time I'm ready to give up on him, I'll hear him mention something about peak oil to someone else. He never uses those words, but he talks about having a garden, animals, alternative light and heat, etc.... telling people there will be a time we'll NEED this stuff - and those who don't have it will be screwed.
Maybe your husband is taken aback some precisely because you have never been the worrier. Perhaps he doesn't know what he should do (do any of us, really?) and so he sits and does nothing.
I don't know much about investments - stocks and such, but I invest my money and my time in my homestead. I figure in the long run it will have the best return. Yes, I'd love to have extra money, but there may indeed come a time when money is not worth the paper it's printed on. My land value may go down, but it's paid for and I'm not selling, so it really doesn't matter to me. As long as it's productive land, it will give good returns to me.
Think about what you can do to prepare short of worrying about those investments. Take small steps to prepare. Doing something - anything - will make you feel better than sitting around worrying. And, it might have the added benefit of making your husband see that you take this very seriously - and haven't just developed an interest in your investments.
Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 1206 Location: Western US
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:05 am Post subject:
CarlinsDarlin wrote:
I don't know much about investments - stocks and such, but I invest my money and my time in my homestead. I figure in the long run it will have the best return. Yes, I'd love to have extra money, but there may indeed come a time when money is not worth the paper it's printed on. My land value may go down, but it's paid for and I'm not selling, so it really doesn't matter to me. As long as it's productive land, it will give good returns to me.
Think about what you can do to prepare short of worrying about those investments. Take small steps to prepare. Doing something - anything - will make you feel better than sitting around worrying. And, it might have the added benefit of making your husband see that you take this very seriously - and haven't just developed an interest in your investments.
Kathy
Thanks Kathy. Good advice. I guess the main reason I worry about our investments is because our house isn't paid off. We still have about $150K left to pay off, and if it really came down to it we could pay most of that off with the investments. I worry about the worst case scenario, we lose our jobs, our investments all disappear, and we're homeless. Okay, I guess that's worst case. I just don't want to lose our house, the one thing that could get us through...
I just don't want to lose our house, the one thing that could get us through...
Considering how many houses overall are "not" payed off I see it as an unlikely scenario that the occupants will be all evicted in case of a full blown economic dive. Who would conduct such evictions and where whould they put half the population? All those "proud house owners" will simply start to squat their houses.
I suggest that you stop discussing PO with your husband or anyone else - simply because it is getting you nowhere, there is still this forum though in case you feel isolated. Awareness of PO does not help anything.
Your husbands comment that this couple with the brand new SUV is lucky not to know about PO is an excellent one. At least he seems not snap your head off like my wife would if I had made such a comment. She calls me PeakOil obsessed and she might be right, I spend two to three hours a day on this site....
I should quit Peak Oil, just like others quit smoking. This site IS addicting! Here a picture of a serious obsessed PeakOiler that defenitely needs to quit, each cigarette stands for a thread:
Last edited by albente on Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:47 am Post subject: Re: Spouse/S.O. Tired of Hearing About P.O.
LadyRuby wrote:
We went camping this weekend. There was a family next to us, very friendly they seemed like really nice people. I noticed they had a brand new SUV, still with temporary license plates, etc. So I said to my husband, "I feel bad for them. They don't know about peak oil. Think I should tell them?" (not that I would tell strangers...). "No," he said, "You should be happy for them that they don't know."
He's tired of hearing about it, tired of my glooming. Mostly I think he's tired of hearing me making suggestions and pleas that we move some of our investments into safer harbors.
The thing is that I've always been the laid back one, and he the worrier. He'd worry about our finances and I'd say things like, "We'll be fine, I'm not worried." And he'd get frustrated saying, "You never worry about anything!!" So in our 10 plus years together I'm the one who has never been concerned about the future.
He's basically recognizes P.O. as a problem but he doesn't really see terrible ramifications, and is kind of tired of hearing about it. From my standpoint, I see a (possibly) limited amount of time to make some changes (especially to investments, not that we have that much but I don't want us to lose them.)
But then I also start wondering if perhaps there ISN'T going to be an immiment problem, that we have a decade or two....??
Anyway, just kind of ranting. Anyone else have problems like this?
It's scary how similar this sounds. The real difference being I am the analytical, always worrying pessimist, not my wife. (been together 10yrs ) I worry about the money. She say's "don't". I worry about jobs and the house. She says "why". The problem is, I am also the one worried about PO. Neither she, my parents or some friends think PO is anything to worry about. They show so little concern in fact, that they continue life as usual. (Thankfully, none drive an SUV. )
I guess I just wish for the support or even some blind preparation so that I could feel like I am not alone. I am 'working on' the wife in a way that, even if she doesn't make some changes because of PO, at least maybe she will want to change to be happier. It gets tough sometimes pushing ever forward, when you feel like you are the only one who cares. I've decided that if I must be the only one who is ready for any event, then I prepare alone. I still prefer to look out for my family and friends and to have the knowledge and experience necessary to help us overcome any obstacles.
Quote:
She calls me PeakOil obsessed and she might be right, I spend two to three hours a day on this site....
I should quit Peak Oil, just like others quit smoking. This site IS addicting! Here a picture of a serious obsessed PeakOiler that defenitely needs to quit:
You aren't kidding. Sometimes I really do think I am a doomer. When I am more focused, I believe most POers are just situationally aware, thoughtful, environmentally conscious people. I like to think I am the latter, but I would also say I am PO obsessed. The question of a healthy obsession would probably depend what side of the fence you are on.
Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 1206 Location: Western US
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Spouse/S.O. Tired of Hearing About P.O.
Ghog wrote:
The question of a healthy obsession would probably depend what side of the fence you are on.
This is how I tried to explain it to my husband. I think Simmons and others have used the tsunami analogy. So I tried to say to my husband that I can't just relax and not worry about it, because it's as if I know there's a tsunami coming and there's a limited amount of time to prepare for it. Once it comes, then it's just picking up the pieces... So while there's time to prepare I can't just forget about it and relax.
It must be harder if you're the person who usually worries anyway, because your wife probably just tacks this on as another thing you're worrying about. I've tried to make that distinction to my husband. "Have I EVER worried about the future? About our future financial situation?" He hears it but doesn't really want to hear it...
It must be harder if you're the person who usually worries anyway, because your wife probably just tacks this on as another thing you're worrying about
You are GOOD! This is absolutely the case. Now when I go on a worry 'rant', I don't even think she listens. For the most part I don't blame her, but now when I NEED her to be with me, she isn't. Guess I cried 'wolf' one too many times?
Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 1206 Location: Western US
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:25 am Post subject:
albente wrote:
Considering how many houses overall are "not" payed off I see it as an unlikely scenario that the occupants will be all evicted in case of a full blown economic dive. Who would conduct such evictions and where whould they put half the population? All those "proud house owners" will simply start to squat their houses.
I don't know about that. I read that during the Great Depression so many mortgages were foreclosed that about 20 percent of homes were "real-estate owned." Now the owner or bank may lease your home back to you for whatever they can get from you, but it still wouldn't mean it's yours anymore and they can sell it when they want.
My spouse hates hearing about PO but loves the oil future trading profits _________________ "The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 7024 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:01 pm Post subject:
LadyRuby wrote:
It must be harder if you're the person who usually worries anyway, because your wife probably just tacks this on as another thing you're worrying about.
I can’t say if it’s harder but it is hard. It’s nice that Susan has always stayed home to take care of us, I like it that way, and we’ve always gotten by; scraping at times but nonetheless.
She does listen too me but as the long term worrier (she is a short termer) it is tough to contemplate some PO scenarios as the breadwinner - or grower as the case may be.
------------------
albente wrote:
I should quit Peak Oil, just like others quit smoking. This site IS addicting! Here a picture of a serious obsessed PeakOiler that defenitely needs to quit:
You are right about that, like a deer in the headlights.
Got a match? _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13191 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject:
LadyRuby wrote:
albente wrote:
Considering how many houses overall are "not" payed off I see it as an unlikely scenario that the occupants will be all evicted in case of a full blown economic dive. Who would conduct such evictions and where whould they put half the population? All those "proud house owners" will simply start to squat their houses.
I don't know about that. I read that during the Great Depression so many mortgages were foreclosed that about 20 percent of homes were "real-estate owned." Now the owner or bank may lease your home back to you for whatever they can get from you, but it still wouldn't mean it's yours anymore and they can sell it when they want.
Yes, I think too many people count on banks not repossessing houses when times get tough. Look at the Great Depression, as you say, plenty of people lost their houses.
As far as investments, look at them and see if they are making returns that make sense compared to your mortgage rate. If your investments are making 4% and you're paying 6% on your mortgage, clearly you're losing money and should take out the investments and put them toward the house. Do keep some cash for emergencies, of course. Even taking a 10% penalty on retirement savings might make sense in some cases, especially if the economy starts going in the crapper. This is just how I look at the situation and what I'm doing myself, though, I'm not a financial advisor! I do feel a house, with a big yard or some land, is the best investment. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Joined: Jun 13, 2005 Posts: 1206 Location: Western US
Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:21 am Post subject:
I had another pretty big breakthrough today, my husband agreed to let me move most of our investments into much safer accounts (not tied to stock market). This morning I just leveled with him and told him how much anxiety I've been feeling that we could lose an awful lot in a matter of a couple of days if the market should crash. This morning I broke him down.
A couple of times I've suggested just trying to pay off our mortgage as much as we can but he won't go for that. But I feel a lot better having most of our funds now in "safer" areas so if we do need to withdraw them to pay down our mortgage, should either/both of us lose our jobs, we won't have lost everything in a stock market crash. (I don't care about investments other than their potential use to pay off our mortgage.)
I said to my husband the other day, after he expressed some serious frustration at me, "Some day you're going to thank me for pestering you and persevering and not giving up." I hope I'm right, not that I want a crash but if I've forced these changes unnecessarily I'll feel kind of bad.
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 253 Location: Vancouver, BC
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Spouse/S.O. Tired of Hearing About P.O.
Skiwi...your post scared me...my fiance asked me the other day when I think we'll see a recession in the economy and I blurted out March '06 w/o even thinking about it...
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 2:08 pm Post subject: Re: Spouse/S.O. Tired of Hearing About P.O.
How to handle it on a daily basis - with spouses, family, friends, and assorted other near and dear? (not to mention colleagues and perfect strangers....
Perspective.
If you look around, you can't help noticing the world has become a pretty ugly place.
The sun still shines, the rain still falls (acidic, or otherwise) and a sunset still paints the sky (ozone depletion notwithstanding.)
I get the feeling sometimes that we all sorta feel like Adam & Eve in Paradise Lost.
Except it never was a paradise.
Now...in my little doggie heart, I can't wish planetary societies any harm (I was raised to be a humanist...and I'm sticking to the plan.)
On the other hand...there's a lot of pretty inhumane activity that has had the world by the balls (not to mention the ovaries) for some time now...and any shift in global order or disorder that alters the power structure enough to maybe alleviate some of that pain...well, I'm all for it.
Millions of people waving signs and placards couldn't do the job. Hell, we couldn't even get (you know who) out of the White House.
I keep thinking (maybe this is my personal manifesto) change is a-comin', that's for sure...maybe big and fast, or maybe small and slow...I don't know.
But the change doesn't have to be all bad.
I loved that bit in that one post...what are they gonna do? Hire 2 or three million extra sherrifs to evict all the foreclosed mortgage holders?
Well then...here's the plan, Stan.
I'll go get one o' them there jobs, and my next door neighbor will too, and they'll be so damned anxious to cover the territory, that when we form a union 2 or 3 million strong, they'll have no choice but to meet our demands, paying maybe $35/hr to start, with lots and lots of double overtime and great benefit packages, including profit sharing, and when my neighbor and I move to evict each other...we'll just buy each others' forclosed houses at ridiculous firesale prices! (and hand them back as Christmas gifts...)
Perspective.
Did we really get that soft? How did we make it through all those Depressions and Recessions? Not to mention a few assorted wars...
I can see a whole lot of people really depressed because they can't afford their toys and diversions anymore. Well, life is still happening beyond the plasma wall screen outside that door just next to the family room entertainment center.
I can also see a whole lot of civic pride and power returning to communities, too.
And in a way that can't necessarily be undone by corporate power.
Think of all the "communities" out there that never have had any civic design. Never had a chance to. Well, maybe now they will. That's something to get excited about. That's a lot of people.
Peak Oil is a shift - in the way we do things. It doesn't mean we stop doing things altogether.
Somewhere there's a long tall Texan reaching for his gun, just itchin'
(but that's what Hollywood told us...and just who the hell is Hollywood, anyway? Is it us?) I wonder....
Wee bits of faith, trust, know-how, ingenuity...somewhere a sign that says, "Give it up...and get on with the job."
It's still an adventure, anyhow.
How many Americans would just love to see some smallish factory pop up in their community, manufacturing something they actually need?
How many Americans would just love to wander into a storefront and find something of quality, reasonably affordable that had a simple label or tag on it, imprinted, embossed...that said "Made in America?" (the price is ten bucks...the pride is free.)
How many Midwesterners would love to trade their organically grown agriculture for some machine-tooled implements made in New England?
Sounds like a glorious pipe dream, doesn't it?
Who the hell actually convinced us that this is absolutely impossible?
And just exactly why the hell is it that we teach this to our kids?
um...when did bullshit lose its stink?
Ah...the American Dream. (sure takin' a beating.)
Maybe that's the problem.
Somewhere along the way...we lost the ability to dream like that.
(corporate money picked it up at "everyday low prices!")
We sold it, sure enough, at bargain rates.
It'll cost us to get it back.
Maybe Peak Oil is our biggest ace...we sure crapped out anyhow.
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