Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Oxy-hydrogen torches do exist, and electrolytic hydrogen generators to produce gas for these torches have been available for years.
The problem is that oxy-hydrogen torches are rubbish, when compared to oxy-acetylene, because the flame is a lower temperature and has a lower density. Cutting or welding steel or other modern alloys is very difficult, and very slow, because of the high temperatures required.
Scamsters have promoted hydrogen torches for a long time, often claiming obvious BS like 'Brown's gas', 'Klien gas' or a 'stabilised monatomic hydrogen oxygen mixture'. Moreover they were often willing to demonstrate cutting and welding - usually with low temperature metals like lead, or tin. Convincing to dumb investors, but a joke to engineers and metal workers.
Hydrogen torches are most commonly used for fine heating and soldering where precision and controllability are more important than raw power e.g. by jewelers. As you might imagine, for a small, occasionally used device, an electrolytic gas source is ideal.
Thanks for the link. I figured it had to be on here somewhere,
Yeah, I figured it was probably at best a romanticized summary of what the technology actually does. I, like most others who saw the story, saw it on Fox News (I know, I know- not exactly a ringing endorsement). I don't know enough about the physics involved to make an assertion one way or the other, but it definitely struck me as coming completely out of left field. They never *really* made it clear if the car in the story could be run totally on "HHO" gas or not. Also, though they never said it, I assume this is a "carrier" of energy and not a source of energy. My understanding is that they were trying to claim it was easier to produce and a more stable carrier to transport than pure hydrogen.
They did say the government was making SUV's that ran on the stuff for use in Iraq though- so what's the deal?! They also said an automaker was consulting with the patent holder about making cars that run on it.
Is this just another "I heard it on TV- therefor it must be true" types of things or what?
Another thing that made me raise my eyebrows was that the Fox news crew editorialized a little afterwards about the device that creates the HHO gas- "I sure hope the oil companies don't buy that patent! That would be horrible!" Since when is Fox news critical of Big Oil?!?!
So what is their point of including this on the news? Is it just to give us false hope? What?
They never *really* made it clear if the car in the story could be run totally on "HHO" gas or not. Also, though they never said it, I assume this is a "carrier" of energy and not a source of energy. My understanding is that they were trying to claim it was easier to produce and a more stable carrier to transport than pure hydrogen.
Well, HHO gas, or whatever you want to call it - is nothing more than a conventional hydrogen/oxygen mixture, in the stoichiometric 2 parts hydrogen to 1 part oxygen.
There is no hidden extra energy, just extra weight because you have to hold the (very heavy) oxygen as well. It's also very dangerous to store the highly explosive hydrogen/oxygen mixture - conversely, hydrogen on its own is much easier to store, and much safer.
Some scamsters have claimed that their miracle electrolyser produces a magical mixture of hydrogen and oxygen, that is somehow different from other mixtures of hydrogen and oxygen, in that it is not explosive, and contains 3-10 x as much energy as hydrogen. Historically, scammers have given their magical mixtures all sorts of names. HHO or Klein gas appears to be nothing more than the latest name given to this nonsense.
I've checked out the web sites, but there isn't really enough information to be useful - they claim that they have equipped some conventional vehicles with 'HHO' and obtained reduced fuel consumption - but don't investigate the source of energy for the 'HHO'.
I think I've heard that the government was researching hydrogen vehicles for use in warfare - but I don't have any good source for that. It may be that this is just deceptive hype put out by the manufacturer, or misquoted information found by an incompetent journalist.
As to why it was on the news - could have just been a slow news day, and the reporter didn't have a sound enough knowledge of science to see through the deception.
Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: HHO Gas
OMG thats what passes for legitimate news these days?! People actually believe that crap? That he can run the car on water? Oh yes we just start on gasoline and then switch over to water blah blah blah.. BULLSHIT.
-G _________________ All right, you primitive screw-heads, listen up!
Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: HHO Gas
If one person in each city buys one, the guy is rich. _________________ ___________________________
WHEN THE BLIND LEAD THE BLIND...GET OUT OF THE WAY!
Using evil to further good makes one evil
Doubt everything but the TRUTH
This posted information is not permissible to be used
by anyone who has ever met a lawyer
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Klein/HHO Gas
At the very least, Klein has come up with a small, mobile machine capable of producing a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen and then pumping that mixture into the fuel stream of a car. He appears to have eliminated any significant storage of the gas mixture thus eliminating the need for a "hydrogen cell". It would seem possible that injecting hydrogen gas at a higher than atmospheric pressure into a car's fuel stream would increase the compression ratio while adding extra fuel availability. Even without any mystery gas, this would be a nice answer.
The other claims about a different kind of hydrogen / oxygen molicule, about producing the gas as very low energy cost, and about burning at a much higher temperature than other hydrogen tourches seem like blue smoke. Time will tell.
What makes this story so interesting is the off chance that we could tell the oil producer's to kiss off. I'd love to see that within my lifetime.
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Klein/HHO Gas
I've no idea what's going on with the car installation, but it's pretty clear that we're not getting the full story.
I suspect it's some variant on hydrogen injection for gasoline engines. If you add hydrogen to the gasoline-air mixture in an engine, it acts as a powerful octane booster. This potentially allows you to use a very high compression engine, run it on regular gas, but get all the efficiency and performance benefits of high compression.
While some people are looking at electrolysis of water for the source of hydrogen - the automakers seem to have more interest in getting the hydrogen from the gasoline: the gasoline has lots of energy in it already, so you don't need a heavy duty electrical supply and expensive platinum electrolyser, with the right catalysts and set up, you can get the hydrogen with very little energy input. Extracting the hydrogen from the gas, also tends to produce carbon monoxide, which is also a potent octane booster (and fuel).
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