For a minute there I thought I had to get off my couch, when all the while the fact is we don't have to do anything much but keep things afloat for just a few decades more! In fact, we'd best shut up about PO, because if our offspring finds out we knew about it all along, they'll turn and wring our necks come 2036!
Joined: Aug 13, 2004 Posts: 115 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:16 am Post subject:
Hawkcreek wrote:
JackBob, you are right. I went with memory prices (shows I am getting old). But I did find it online for $3.90 a pound in 5 pound containners. That adds another 9 bucks to the total, but still keeps it around $200, I think. Or you could delete the honey and buy the same calories in white sugar a lot cheaper and make up the nutrient difference with a bottle of one-a-day vitamin/mineral supplement (add a small bottle of maple sryup flavoring tablets for a couple of bucks). Lots of ways to keep it under $200 bucks - the dog food trick would do it, if you really got hungry. If I see the SHTF, I intend to spotlight some of the many deer on my place and store them by canning or converting them to jerky. The hell with permits.
Very sensible to have the rolled oats, too. A nutritious choice for breakfast - porridge or oatmeal. I have read that the Scottish farmers who emigrated to the American West around 1890 always planted at least 1 acre of oats every year - it would grow under most conditions and they would never starve. Porridge 3 times a day! Yikes. Hey - better than an empty belly.
Joined: Jul 09, 2004 Posts: 71 Location: Sunny San Diego
Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2004 12:16 am Post subject:
Regarding food storage. I am working on tucking away a one year supply of food for my daughter and I. I have begun to vacuum seal dried goods.
Then, one day...I got to thinking
If I open a bag of vacuum packed food and am not in the position of having tupperware to re-seal it, what am I going to do?? (I guess this is assuming a SHHTF situation). Now I seal two or three ziplock bags INSIDE the vacuum sealed bag, with the dry goods. It's a great way to assure that when you open the bag you have a ready made container for the contents.
There is your food preparation "tip of the day"
Trip
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6374 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 7:13 am Post subject:
Good tip, Trip.
I would add salt, spices and multivitamins to that bucket and probably powdered milk or cornmeal as I think it is missing some protein. The “Morman Four” is hard red wheat, salt, sugar/honey and powdered milk.
While I agree on having a “Deep Bunker” - as my wife calls our hopefully-never-needed-stores, there are some big advantages of storing what you eat and eating what you store.
First, you know how to cook it,
Second, you and your family are used to eating it – people, especially kids, may refuse food vastly different from what they are used to or become bored with the same old ration and stop eating, even if they don’t starve they will become weakened and susceptible to disease. Then there is the comfort of eating familiar foods in an otherwise stressful situation.
And third, you now it is reasonably fresh and nutritious.
Rotating stored food is a easy habit to get into and establishing a well stocked pantry is fairly easy, check out the Food Storage Articles on the downloads page here: http://www.peakoil.com/downcat2.html
You can do it a little at a time weekly, monthly or however.
Anyway, good topic. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 108 Location: Carlisle, PA
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 3:37 pm Post subject:
born2respawn wrote:
Alternatively you can pick up crossbows for a around �100, that should be able to stop anything, and with a little ingenuity can be made far more deadly.
We got ours for $5 at an auction.
In fact, we got tens of thousands of dollars worth of stuff over the last couple years at auctions for a few hundred bucks, maybe a thou total.
Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2082 Location: Arkansas
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject: Food Stores
MRE's and dehydrated foods are too expensive for most budgets. Many store bought foods last a long time, can be bought in quantity, and last many, many years. For example:
(1) White Rice - if stored right, will last many, many years (dry, out of sun, cool place, preferably under 70 degrees, colder the better). White rice stores a long time and is cheap, thus why the UN uses it as its main staple. 50 lb bag of white rice (not brown) cost only about $12. This is true of most dry beans, like brown beans. Together, you can live almost indefinitely on beans and rice.
(2) Normal canned goods are manufactured to last a minimum of 2 years, but most will last longer if kept under 70 degrees. In fact, the general rule is if the can is not swollen, its safe to eat.
(3) Honey has a shelf life of at least five years, even if it completely turns to sugar (sugar itself has an almost indefinite shelf life). Honey and regular sugar are cheap, and honey and sugar can be used to cuts, burns, deep wounds in place of anti-biotics. Do an internet search on honey and wound care - learn all about it.
(4) Salt last indefinitely, and you will need it.
(5) Dry milk has a long shelf life, is inexpensive (if stored right).
(6) Peanut butter is a great all round survival food, and will last 2 years on the shelf.
(7) If you buy specially packaged seeds off the internet, they can store up to five years at normal indoor temperatures.
( Buy some long term storing vitamins, there are special vitamins which can be bought on a site called Nitropak that store for up to 10 years. Pack of 12 is $180, but I think its a must.
(9) always have a good sleeping bag, bc more people die of hypothermia in a true survival situation than from a lack of food. A good sleeping bag is a survival must, buy synthetic, not down (down won't keep you warm if wet). This is your travelling shelter. You can survive a long time with a sleeping bag and a jar of peanut butter.
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 108 Location: Carlisle, PA
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 2:23 am Post subject: Re: Food Stores
seahorse wrote:
MRE's and dehydrated foods are too expensive for most budgets.
Dehydrated foods are darned cheap... if you dehydrate them yourself. It's just the purcahsed stuff that's expensive.
This year, we dried ground beef, plum tomatoes, swiss chard, basil and celery. Last year, I dried some carrots too, but passed this year in favor of root-cellaring.
Drying is a better use of storage space than canning also.
Quote:
Many store bought foods last a long time, can be bought in quantity, and last many, many years.
And *all* will run out sooner or later. You need to know how to *make* food, except for a few things like baking soda and salt where it's actually feasible to buy a lifetime supply.
Quote:
Normal canned goods are manufactured to last a minimum of 2 years, but most will last longer if kept under 70 degrees. In fact, the general rule is if the can is not swollen, its safe to eat.
It's not just about safety. Canned foods deteriorate with regards to both nutritional value and palatability over time. This applies to both store-bought and home-canned foods.
Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2082 Location: Arkansas
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:01 am Post subject: food list
I agree that learning to dehydrate and actually dehydrating your own foods is going to be cheaper in most situations, but most people aren't going to take the time to learn how or follow-through with it. So most people will probably buy ready made foods for their cache. Whtie rice can't be beat as a survival food staple. Studies have found that white rice, stored properly has been good for up to 30 years and pure carbs, like white rice, don't lose much if any of the carb value they provide. This is why the UN uses it. Therefore, for most people looking to buy a lot of bulk for a very low price, a $12 bag of white rice (50lbs) is hard to beat. You can survive a long time on a 50lb of rice. Throw in some iodized salt (which stores indefinitely) and is also very cheap, and some dehydrated milk which stores for many, many years, and you easily have a several month food supply for very little. Peanute butter, a great survival food, last at least 2 years and packs a lot of punch. For guaranteed nutrition, buy a long- term storage multi-vitamin found of the internet (storage life of supposedly 10 yrs). Buy some long term storage seeds, and you can easily get yourself to your first planting on the rice, milk, and vitamins you bought.
"So that's all there is? MREs and dried rice and beans? There must be more that can be stockpiled."
I'm surprised no one's mentioned pressure canning. I've been canning for years and it was one of the primary ways of storing foods in the early and mid 20th Century. But many folks have abandoned it for freezers in the past few decades.
You can can most anything in pint (meat) and quart (vegetables) jars. Beef, poultry, fish, etc. will keep for 2-3 years, as will most vegetables.
--Carp caught out of clear water such as rivers tastes just like canned salmon -- bones dissolved for extra protein.
I do most of my canning in a 1930's vintage canner that works great. Doesn't even have a rubber gasket to wear out. Has instead several screw down clamps --when metal gets hot, it seals. Got mine at an auction for about $10. Had it checked out by county extension to make sure pressure gauge was accurate.
I heartily recommend you get a pressure canner and at least a couple hundred pint and quart jars and plenty of lids. Mayo type jars must not be used, only regular canning jars. Also get a good canning book such as Kerr and Ball put out.
If you store most of your food in a freezer now, a canner could be a life saver at some point if the power goes out and the power company says it'll probably be out for days or maybe weeks or maybe forever. If that happens, you can save a lot of what would otherwise be rotten food by canning it. First do the meats; thaw, cut up and fill one of those great 5 gallon stainless steel pots that are made in India by the millions and sold at Wally World, etc. Cook the meat til it's done and then can it, filling each jar with some of the broth. I know it's a lot of work but the alternative might be starving, or joining a bread line like a lot of those people in Florida undoubtedly did.
If you're unfortunate enough to cook on an electric stove and that also goes out, you're stuck with no heat source. You can't can on a fire or even a wood cook stove; you need an even heat source to keep pressure steady. So as a backup I would recommend buying one of those propane camp stoves and several propane bottles or a 20 lb. bottle or two. You might also consider buying a small propane cook stove that you could store until ready to use. Make sure it has a propane orifice.
One step further -- and this is an investment to me that is more valuable than gold -- would be to either rent or buy at least a 250-500 gal. propane tank and have it set up in your back yard. Propane lasts forever in a tank and is still fairly reasonable to buy, but of course the price of it will skyrocket in the near future.
Make sure that when you rent or buy a propane tank, it has what's called a "liquid leg" on top. Most all newer tanks have it. It's just a valve that allows you to fill smaller tanks, such as the 20 pounders that you can carry into your house. Don't use this propane to heat with; just to cook with. That 250-500 lb tank of propane will last a long time if it's only used to cook. Have the propane guy show you how to fill a small tank with the leg.
I've been out in the sticks for about 25 years now. I most always have a year's worth of food on hand, a combination of freezers, dried and canned food. I have a large garden each year and also harvest wild game and buy local grown poultry, etc.
I may be considered a heartless jerk but I look forward to the time when this so-called "civilization" collapses. The world is over-peopled by about 5 billion. We've been abusing this old planet for thousands of years and it's time the party ended. To me, people are less important than are the plants and animals and the ultimate survival of the planet earth. If I'm one of the victims, so be it.
There will most certainly be pockets of people left over who will repopulate through the centuries to again screw up the planet. But at least they will have to be more creative next time around and find something besides oil to foul things up.
Joined: Oct 15, 2004 Posts: 2082 Location: Arkansas
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:24 am Post subject: Canning
Again, I think canning is a long term must, in fact, a necessity to know since it's what everyone did prior to refrigerators. However, again, most people will not take the time to learn it or practice. At best, they may buy a book on it and should. For the majority of people looking to spend only about $200-$500, they are going to have to buy store-bought staples which will last as long as MREs (which are estimated to have a 5 year shelf life under proper storage conditions), and dehydrated foods are very expensive and actually, the shelf life is not 20 years plus. Although people advertise them as such, different dehydrated foods have different shelf lifes. Most only last between 5 and 10 years under ideal storage conditions. Therefore, common staples you can buy at the store are much cheaper and have as long or longer shelf life that either MREs or a lot of the dehyrdated foods. Again, those store bought staples are rice and dry beans, honey, sugar, salt, and dry milk. For $200-$500, you can buy massive quantities of these. Even peanut butter has a fairly long shelf life, about 2 years.
However, I agree that at a minimum everyone on this site out to buy books on the basics like canning, field medicine, making cheese, making butter, dehydrating foods, basic gardening, and seed storage from fresh vegetables.
Joined: Oct 19, 2004 Posts: 108 Location: Carlisle, PA
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:44 am Post subject: Re: food list
seahorse wrote:
I agree that learning to dehydrate and actually dehydrating your own foods is going to be cheaper in most situations, but most people aren't going to take the time to learn how or follow-through with it.
The problem is, you'll run out. There's no feasible way to store enough food for a lifetime. For true survival, you have to know how to produce food.
Buying dried food is a short-term survival strategy. It's good to have stuff on hand this way if what you're preparing for is a hurricane or other short-term scenario.
But if what you're preparing for is a world in which transporting food from mega-farms to grocery stores no longer occurs, you need a longer-term plan than just stocking up some rice and beans.
To me, it is reasonable to have two years food in storage, to account for years with bad harvests. We're working on that, only have about nine months worth so far. More than half of it is stuf we produced ourselves, and we're working on that too.
A few staples, you just need to have a lifetime supply. It is much simpler to buy a lifetime supply of baking soda now than it will be to go to Wisconsin and mine it afterwards.
Similarly with salt, which is even more important than baking soda.
Quote:
So most people will probably buy ready made foods for their cache.
Then they'll starve when their cache runs out.
Just having seeds in your store is not sufficient. You have to have the knowledge to turn those seeds into food. You need to be able to grow it and know how to preserve what you've grown until the next harvest.
BTW, I grew navy beans and pinto beans this year for the first time. They grow just the same as green beans, it's pretty easy. You just wait to harvest the bean pods until they're shriveled up a bit, leave them on a screen out of the sun to dry thoroughly, and then shell the beans.
This year was experimental for us with beans, next year I'll give a shot at a serious harvest.
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Buy some long term storing vitamins, there are special vitamins which can be bought on a site called Nitropak that store for up to 10 years. Pack of 12 is $180, but I think its a must.
