I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:30 am Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
Thanks for responding - yes, we should do more pruning but it is heavy work on high ladders. Plan is to hire a man next year.
Quote:
Come PO, I don't expect that people will be complaining about an abundance of fresh fruit.
I certainly agree with that. Come to think about it, most houses on my street was built right after WWII (when we were cut off from imported fruit and everything was rationed). So these houses (big lots, 1000-2000 sq meters) now have big fruit trees (apples, pears, plums - my plum tree is not in good shape, and the original 1940s owners for some reason never planted pears. But they planted 5 kinds of apples, early to late varieties). I usually make a serious attempt to use as much as possible of the fruit, even in years when we get lots, but most of my neighbors just let it rot on the ground.
Houses built in the 60s-70s have fewer fruit trees, at least on this street.
We shall see who will be the happier in the next decades. Hopefully my apple trees, planted in the 1940s, will still be going strong.
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1482 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:39 am Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
And I am finding that some species (Filberts, for example) have widely variant sizes, shapes, and yields. Some are shrubs that get 4-6' high. Others like the Turkish Tree Hazel are full size trees that reach 60'.
http://www.eat-it.com/Plants/Filberts.htm
And many of the fruit trees can come in dwarf, semi-dwarf, or standard. The dwarf ones fruit earlier (2-3 years) than the standard ones (6-10 years), but have 1/4 the yield.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6536 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
Skyemoor, in answer to your request on the other forum, I have:
Mulberry, Illinois everbearing
Jujube, Li
Jujube, Lang
Plum, Methley
Plum, Hollywood
Apple, Liberty
Apple, William's Pride
Heartnut
Black walnut
Pawpaw, seedling
Pawpaw, mango
Pawpaw, Davis
Of these, only the apples and plums have been attacked by Japanese beetles.
All of these have been planted within the past two years and all are doing well or very well. I'll probably add a few more trees in the spring, but I'm about at my limit, given the watering and bug-fighting requirements.
A warning about filberts: Japanese beetles can go to town on them. Maybe Surround will do the trick.
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
I hope this thread stays active for a while, as I ordered fruit trees to arrive in the spring...2 dwarf apple,1 dwarf Euro plum, 1 dwarf walnut, 1 dwarf cherry. I'll be back in the spring asking lots of questions to you all! (Anything I should be doing NOW to prepare soil?)
Also, earlier this summer, we ordered 2 self-pollinating citrus trees, 1 dwarf lemon, and 1 dwarf orange...we have 2 blossoms on the lemon tree, and while no blossoms on the orange tree, lots of new leaves the last few weeks. We'll be bringing them inside for the winter soon, as nights are getting pretty chilly.
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
I think apples are one fruit that you really need 2 for pollination purposes. I think that most other fruit trees have been hybrid-ized (is that a word?) for self-pollination. If you intend on ordering your trees online, you might want to order them soon...some nursuries sell out by this time for spring deliveries. You may want to put your orders in soon.
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6536 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
mommy22 wrote:
I think apples are one fruit that you really need 2 for pollination purposes. I think that most other fruit trees have been hybrid-ized (is that a word?) for self-pollination. If you intend on ordering your trees online, you might want to order them soon...some nursuries sell out by this time for spring deliveries. You may want to put your orders in soon.
Not quite correct, mommy.
You do need two apple trees for pollination, AND the trees have to be different varieties, AND their periods of blooming must overlap. Guides are available to prevent unfortunate mistakes in this regard.
No, many if not most other fruit trees are not self-fertile (for example, most plums). Some are self-fertile, but even with them you get a much better crop if you pollinate with another variety.
Research thoroughly before buying any fruit tree(s).
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6536 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:27 pm Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
dabear95 wrote:
Heineken wrote:
What's particularly discouraging about JBs is that even conventional toxic pesticides aren't very effective against them. The ones contacted directly by the pesticide die, but more more beetles keep arriving and will actually eat the poisoned foliage.
Are you serious? I wish I could eat poison and still thrive!!
Well, not really, but you know what I mean.
I intend to plant 1 pear and 1 apple tree next year. I still have some reading to do.
Yup, I've seen them happily munching away on poisoned foliage. They can do plenty of damage before they keel over.
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:27 am Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
Heineken wrote:
What's particularly discouraging about JBs is that even conventional toxic pesticides aren't very effective against them. The ones contacted directly by the pesticide die, but more more beetles keep arriving and will actually eat the poisoned foliage.
Are you serious? I wish I could eat poison and still thrive!!
Well, not really, but you know what I mean.
I intend to plant 1 pear and 1 apple tree next year. I still have some reading to do.
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:29 am Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
nocar wrote:
Hopefully my apple trees, planted in the 1940s, will still be going strong. nocar
I am very much a rookie in regard to fruit trees. However, my limited reading indicates the peak yield for full size fruit trees is only 30-40 years maximum. Perhaps they will begin to taper off?
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 13065 Location: naive idiot fantasy world
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:42 am Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
dabear95 wrote:
nocar wrote:
Hopefully my apple trees, planted in the 1940s, will still be going strong. nocar
I am very much a rookie in regard to fruit trees. However, my limited reading indicates the peak yield for full size fruit trees is only 30-40 years maximum. Perhaps they will begin to taper off?
Though standard size fruit trees, especially apples, can bear for 50 -100 years, it's prudent to begin to replace them once they reach 50 years, or earlier, I think. I wouldn't count on full yields after 50 years.
It's probably a good idea to keep planting a few trees each year, if you have room for them.
This nursery gives information on pollinators for southern varieties:
http://www.johnsonnursery.com/ _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy
Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:35 am Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
There are some old apple trees around here that are probably close to a hundred years old, but lots of them are suffering from disease and don't bear very much. As I understand it, standard-sized trees live longer, but they aren't planted much anymore; most people plant dwarf or semi-dwarf because they bear sooner and the trees are a much more manageable size. Standard-sized trees can get very tall, especially if they are not carefully pruned, and picking them can be a high-risk sport.
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:11 am Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
Ludi wrote
Ludi wrote
Quote:
Though standard size fruit trees, especially apples, can bear for 50 -100 years, it's prudent to begin to replace them once they reach 50 years, or earlier, I think. I wouldn't count on full yields after 50 years.
Probably very sensible, but this is a year when I see no end to apples, so my motivation for thinking that far ahead is low. We have seen the trees age from being in their 40s to being in their 60s with no appearant decline. And, remember, I would not mind a decline. Also, there is a general rule not to plant an apple tree where there recently has been an apple tree (and the same for other species) - the soil is exhausted for this particular fruit. Full yield? It naturally varies from no apples at all to tons fo apples, I think, or at least 100s of kilograms, much too many in any case.
So my advise to other people concur with the idea of dwarf trees. I do not think they grow big enough to overwhelme you.
Joined: Aug 14, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: Dead civilization walking
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:51 am Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
I've a pair of dwarf lemon trees in my front yard. They give me lemons 12 months a year (I'm in Sunset Western Garden Book zone 23-24 BTW) and really do stay small compared to some citrus varieties of 60 years ago. Got a 60 year old grapefruit tree in another yard- it was planted as part of a world war II victory garden and still bears like crazy; it is 15 feet tall or more with a 20 foot spread. I also have about three different kinds of figs which are delicious but bear primarily in summer only. The figs also ripen somewhat erratically depending on which side of the tree they're growing. One thing I like about the figs is that they can be air-layered if I want to give clones of my cultivars to selected friends and family.
There is also an apricot tree that used to bear a meager crop every spring until....I procured a hive of bees- or rather, they procured a home in the side of my house. They've been around for two years now and each year the apricot has had bumper crops- so much so that some of the fruit just fell and rotted and now I've about a half dozen seedlings to dig out of the ground and pot up.
If you are going to deal with flowering fruit trees, it may behoove you to get into beekeeping.
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
Thanks, Heinekin, for all your info on this post and others. All of this garden life is experimental for me this year and for many years to come, I guess!
I'm so glad I fell into these forums...all you people ar great sources of info and it's great to have a support system like this for those of us who don't have an agricultural background! Thanks to you all!
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6536 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: [Food Source] Fruit and Nut trees
You're very welcome, mommy22. I'm hardly an expert, but I'm glad to share what little I know (as well as to absorb what others know!).
Chapparal, interesting you should mention bees and beekeeping. This year I saw fewer honeybees than I ever had before. In fact, up until late July I did not see a single honeybee (despite looking for them regularly in patches of clover). Then I finally saw some in my flowering corn. A friend of mind who used to keep bees said they're being slowly wiped out by some kind of mite (or was it a fungus?). Although this sounds like a natural cause, I'm sure massive human interference with the natural order somehow lies at the core of this. Very disturbing to think of a future without honeybees.
Sure enough, the price of honey seems to have doubled in the past couple of years.
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