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Specop_007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: Understanding FEMA priorities in a peak oil breakdown Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

rogerhb wrote:
Specop_007 wrote:
Poor people are much more likely to commit crimes.

Yeah, Kenny Lay and Martha Stewart were so poor.
You could say that more poor people commit crimes because there are more of them.
You could say that more poor people are likely to act out of desperation. Or you could say that poor people are more likely to get convicted.

Or you could say: Poor people are much more likely to commit crimes.
_________________
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Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

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rogerhb
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:19 am    Post subject: Re: Understanding FEMA priorities in a peak oil breakdown Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Specop_007 wrote:
Or you could say, Poor people are much more likely to commit crimes.

Is that as a class of people or based on an individual?

Question 1: Okay so a crime has been committed. I am poor.
Am I more likely to have committed the crime or was a poor person more likely to have committed a crime?

Question 2: A million dollars has been stolen.
Is it more likely a million poor people stole one dollar each or a rich person stole a million?
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MD
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:41 am    Post subject: Re: Is this one of those "detainees FEMA camps"? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I_Like_Plants wrote:
PenultimateManStanding wrote:
My 'prejudice' story: I was teaching my first class in physics at a High School. There was a chubby, social Mexican girl who suprised me by getting near perfect scores on every test in a subject which is difficult for most everyone on first encounter. Newton's Laws, vector analysis, Kepler's Planetary Laws, etc. The girl was just extremely intelligent and she made no big deal about it. I assumed that she couldn't be that smart but I was wrong. She taught me more than I taught her.
If she were white she'd be punished for being that smart, and they'd try to "track" her into the dummy classes.
Could you elaborate? Specifically, what would be the rationale behind "tracking" an obviously gifted student into "the dummy class"? I am dumbfounded by the idea, or perhaps just plain dumb.
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Wednesday
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:34 am    Post subject: Post subject: Aftermath of Katrina (Long Read) Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Hurricane Katrina - Our Experiences Sep 6, 2005, By Paramedics Larry Bradshaw and Lorrie Beth Slonsky Note: Bradshaw and Slonsky are paramedics from California that were attending the EMS conference in New Orleans. Larry Bradshaw is the chief shop steward, Paramedic Chapter, SEIU Local 790; and Lorrie Beth Slonsky is steward, Paramedic Chapter, SEIU Local 790. [California]

Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans, the Walgreen's store at the corner of Royal and Iberville streets remained locked. The dairy display case was clearly visible through the widows. It was now 48 hours without electricity, running water, or plumbing. The milk, yogurt, and cheeses were beginning to spoil in the 90-degree heat. The owners and managers had locked up the food, water, pampers, and prescriptions and fled the City. Outside Walgreen's windows, residents and tourists grew increasingly thirsty and hungry.

The much-promised federal, state and local aid never materialized and the windows at Walgreen's gave way to the looters. There was an alternative. The cops could have broken one small window and distributed the nuts, fruit juices, and bottle water in an organized and systematic manner. But they did not. Instead they spent hours playing cat and mouse, temporarily chasing away the looters.

We were finally airlifted out of New Orleans two days ago and arrived home yesterday (Saturday). We have yet to see any of the TV coverage or look at a newspaper. We are willing to guess that there were no video images or front-page pictures of European or affluent white tourists looting the Walgreen's in the French Quarter.

We also suspect the media will have been inundated with "hero" images of the National Guard, the troops and the police struggling to help the "victims" of the Hurricane. What you will not see, but what we witnessed, were the real heroes and sheroes of the hurricane relief effort: the working class of New Orleans. The maintenance workers who used a forklift to carry the sick and disabled. The engineers, who rigged, nurtured and kept the generators running. The electricians who improvised thick extension cords stretching over blocks to share the little electricity we had in order to free cars stuck on rooftop parking lots. Nurses who took over for mechanical ventilators and spent many hours on end manually forcing air into the lungs of unconscious patients to keep them alive. Doormen who rescued folks stuck in elevators. Refinery workers who broke into boat yards, "stealing" boats to rescue their neighbors clinging to their roofs in floodwaters. Mechanics who helped hot-wire any car that could be found to ferry people out of the City. And the food service workers who scoured the commercial kitchens improvising communal meals for hundreds of those stranded.

Most of these workers had lost their homes, and had not heard from members of their families, yet they stayed and provided the only infrastructure for the 20% of New Orleans that was not under water.

On Day 2, there were approximately 500 of us left in the hotels in the French Quarter. We were a mix of foreign tourists, conference attendees like ourselves, and locals who had checked into hotels for safety and shelter from Katrina. Some of us had cell phone contact with family and friends outside of New Orleans. We were repeatedly told that all sorts of resources including the National Guard and scores of buses were pouring in to the City. The buses and the other resources must have been invisible because none of us had seen them.

We decided we had to save ourselves. So we pooled our money and came up with $25,000 to have ten buses come and take us out of the City. Those who did not have the requisite $45.00 for a ticket were subsidized by those who did have extra money. We waited for 48 hours for the buses, spending the last 12 hours standing outside, sharing the limited water, food, and clothes we had. We created a priority boarding area for the sick, elderly and newborn babies. We waited late into the night for the "imminent" arrival of the buses. The buses never arrived. We later learned that the minute the arrived to the City limits, they were commandeered by the military.

By day 4, our hotels had run out of fuel and water. Sanitation was dangerously abysmal. As the desperation and despair increased, street crime as well as water levels began to rise. The hotels turned us out and locked their doors, telling us that the "officials" told us to report to the convention center to wait for more buses. As we entered the center of the City, we finally encountered the National Guard. The Guards told us we would not be allowed into the Superdome as the City's primary shelter had descended into a humanitarian and health hellhole. The guards further told us that the City's only other shelter, the Convention Center, was also descending into chaos and squalor and that the police were not allowing anyone else in. Quite naturally, we asked, "If we can't go to the only 2 shelters in the City, what was our alternative?" The guards told us that that was our problem, and no they did not have extra water to give to us. This would be the start of our numerous encounters with callous and hostile "law enforcement".

We walked to the police command center at Harrah's on Canal Street and were told the same thing, that we were on our own, and no they did not have water to give us. We now numbered several hundred. We held a mass meeting to decide a course of action. We agreed to camp outside the police command post. We would be plainly visible to the media and would constitute a highly visible embarrassment to the City officials. The police told us that we could not stay. Regardless, we began to settle in and set up camp. In short order, the police commander came across the street to address our group. He told us he had a solution: we should walk to the Pontchartrain Expressway and cross the greater New Orleans Bridge where the police had buses lined up to take us out of the City. The crowed cheered and began to move. We called everyone back and explained to the commander that there had been lots of misinformation and wrong information and was he sure that there were buses waiting for us. The commander turned to the crowd and stated emphatically, "I swear to you that the buses are there."

We organized ourselves and the 200 of us set off for the bridge with great excitement and hope. As we marched pasted the convention center, many locals saw our determined and optimistic group and asked where we were headed. We told them about the great news. Families immediately grabbed their few belongings and quickly our numbers doubled and then doubled again. Babies in strollers now joined us, people using crutches, elderly clasping walkers and others people in wheelchairs. We marched the 2-3 miles to the freeway and up the steep incline to the Bridge. It now began to pour down rain, but it did not dampen our enthusiasm.

As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs formed a line across the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to speak, they began firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the crowd fleeing in various directions. As the crowd scattered and dissipated, a few of us inched forward and managed to engage some of the sheriffs in conversation. We told them of our conversation with the police commander and of the commander's assurances. The sheriffs informed us there were no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to get us to move.

We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway, especially as there was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They responded that the West Bank was not going to become New Orleans and there would be no Superdomes in their City. These were code words for if you are poor and black, you are not crossing the Mississippi River and you were not getting out of New Orleans.

Our small group retreated back down Highway 90 to seek shelter from the rain under an overpass. We debated our options and in the end decided to build an encampment in the middle of the Ponchartrain Expressway on the center divide, between the O'Keefe and Tchoupitoulas exits. We reasoned we would be visible to everyone, we would have some security being on an elevated freeway and we could wait and watch for the arrival of the yet to be seen buses.

All day long, we saw other families, individuals and groups make the same trip up the incline in an attempt to cross the bridge, only to be turned away. Some chased away with gunfire, others simply told no, others to be verbally berated and humiliated. Thousands of New Orleaners were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the City on foot. Meanwhile, the only two City shelters sank further into squalor and disrepair. The only way across the bridge was by vehicle. We saw workers stealing trucks, buses, moving vans, semi-trucks and any car that could be hotwired. All were packed with people trying to escape the misery New Orleans had become.

Our little encampment began to blossom. Someone stole a water delivery truck and brought it up to us. Let's hear it for looting! A mile or so down the freeway, an army truck lost a couple of pallets of C-rations on a tight turn. We ferried the food back to our camp in shopping carts. Now secure with the two necessities, food and water; cooperation, community, and creativity flowered. We organized a clean up and hung garbage bags from the rebar poles. We made beds from wood pallets and cardboard. We designated a storm drain as the bathroom and the kids built an elaborate enclosure for privacy out of plastic, broken umbrellas, and other scraps. We even organized a food recycling system where individuals could swap out parts of C-rations (applesauce for babies and candies for kids!).

This was a process we saw repeatedly in the aftermath of Katrina. When individuals had to fight to find food or water, it meant looking out for yourself only. You had to do whatever it took to find water for your kids or food for your parents. When these basic needs were met, people began to look out for each other, working together and constructing a community.

If the relief organizations had saturated the City with food and water in the first 2 or 3 days, the desperation, the frustration and the ugliness would not have set in.

Flush with the necessities, we offered food and water to passing families and individuals. Many decided to stay and join us. Our encampment grew to 80 or 90 people.

From a woman with a battery-powered radio we learned that the media was talking about us. Up in full view on the freeway, every relief and news organizations saw us on their way into the City. Officials were being asked what they were going to do about all those families living up on the freeway? The officials responded they were going to take care of us. Some of us got a sinking feeling. "Taking care of us" had an ominous tone to it.

Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the sinking City) was correct. Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed up, jumped out of his patrol vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces, screaming, "Get off the farking freeway". A helicopter arrived and used the wind from its blades to blow away our flimsy structures. As we retreated, the sheriff loaded up his truck with our food and water.

Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the freeway. All the law enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we congregated or congealed into groups of 20 or more. In every congregation of "victims" they saw "mob" or "riot". We felt safety in numbers. Our "we must stay together" was impossible because the agencies would force us into small atomized groups.

In the pandemonium of having our camp raided and destroyed, we scattered once again. Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in the dark, we sought refuge in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway on Cilo Street. We were hiding from possible criminal elements but equally and definitely, we were hiding from the police and sheriffs with their martial law, curfew and shoot-to-kill policies.

The next days, our group of 8 walked most of the day, made contact with New Orleans Fire Department and were eventually airlifted out by an urban search and rescue team. We were dropped off near the airport and managed to catch a ride with the National Guard. The two young guardsmen apologized for the limited response of the Louisiana guards. They explained that a large section of their unit was in Iraq and that meant they were shorthanded and were unable to complete all the tasks they were assigned.

We arrived at the airport on the day a massive airlift had begun. The airport had become another Superdome. We 8 were caught in a press of humanity as flights were delayed for several hours while George Bush landed briefly at the airport for a photo op. After being evacuated on a coast guard cargo plane, we arrived in San Antonio, Texas.

There the humiliation and dehumanization of the official relief effort continued. We were placed on buses and driven to a large field where we were forced to sit for hours and hours. Some of the buses did not have air-conditioners. In the dark, hundreds of us were forced to share two filthy overflowing porta-potties. Those who managed to make it out with any possessions (often a few belongings in tattered plastic bags) we were subjected to two different dog-sniffing searches.

Most of us had not eaten all day because our C-rations had been confiscated at the airport because the rations set off the metal detectors. Yet, no food had been provided to the men, women, children, elderly, disabled as they sat for hours waiting to be "medically screened" to make sure we were not carrying any communicable diseases.

This official treatment was in sharp contrast to the warm, heart-felt reception given to us by the ordinary Texans. We saw one airline worker give her shoes to someone who was barefoot. Strangers on the street offered us money and toiletries with words of welcome. Throughout, the official relief effort was callous, inept, and racist.

There was more suffering than need be.
Lives were lost that did not need to be lost.
Sep 6, 2005, By Paramedics Larry Bradshaw and Lorrie Beth Slonsky
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I_Like_Plants
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: Is this one of those "detainees FEMA camps"? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

In schools where whites are the minority, this is simply what happens. This is why this business of integration and "diversity" etc is just plain suicidal. But while it's not being talked about, the world is waking up to this... Cool Cool Cool
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PonyBoy78
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Understanding FEMA priorities in a peak oil breakdown Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Some questions from an ignorant man:

How many troops does it take to run/control/lockdown a city?
Do we have enough troops/police to do so for every major city in the U.S.?
Would relocating all of our troops/police to be concentrated in cities have ramifications for those living in rural areas?

And at a certain point, there's a population cutoff where the government will decide that it's not worth it to lock down a given city. What population threshold would that be? 250,000? 100,000? 50,000?

Sorry if these questions are ridiculous.. this is the first time I've pondered such things.. Embarassed
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Specop_007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: Is this one of those "detainees FEMA camps"? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I_Like_Plants wrote:
In schools where whites are the minority, this is simply what happens. This is why this business of integration and "diversity" etc is just plain suicidal.
But while it's not being talked about, the world is waking up to this... Cool Cool Cool
Specop is more impressed by the idea of lowering the school standards to get more students to be "average", which is turn causes a disproportionately large amount to be "above average".
_________________
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble

كا&#
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PenultimateManStanding
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this one of those "detainees FEMA camps"? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Specop_007 wrote:
You listen to some weird crap dude.
Fats Waller and Charlie Parker aren't 'weird'. What's 'weird' is today's electronically synthesised stuff with the abnormal heavy bass and the criminality expressed by the performers.
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Chicagoan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Understanding FEMA priorities in a peak oil breakdown Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

PonyBoy78 wrote:
Some questions from an ignorant man:
How many troops does it take to run/control/lockdown a city?
Do we have enough troops/police to do so for every major city in the U.S.?
Would relocating all of our troops/police to be concentrated in cities have ramifications for those living in rural areas?
And at a certain point, there's a population cutoff where the government will decide that it's not worth it to lock down a given city. What population threshold would that be? 250,000? 100,000? 50,000?
Sorry if these questions are ridiculous.. this is the first time I've pondered such things.. Embarassed

What they will probably do is engineer another terrorist attack that will make 9-11 look small. All Americans between 18 and 40 will be drafted. Those not fighting the imperialist wars for the global elite will enforce the martial law at home. Your control-freak neighbors will be put in charge.
BTW, the danger of an Al CIA-duh attack is extremely high right now. It is not safe being in a large city like Chicago. In a medium city like Austin, you should have a clear escape route that does not depend on the automobile. Stay off the main roads.
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PonyBoy78
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Understanding FEMA priorities in a peak oil breakdown Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

I've always half-jokingly remarked about how the big Blue counties of the country (NYC, Chicago, San Fran, Philly, etc) had better be careful if the approval rating drops below 40%.

A draft. Hmm. It wouldn't be very politically palatable, but then again.. that wouldn't matter if elections were suspended for "security reasons" Shocked
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backstop
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Understanding FEMA priorities in a peak oil breakdown Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Wednesday - that's a very fine post. I should be grateful if you could find a way to pass this post on to them.
_______
thankyou for that clear, concise and calm account of a dreadful time. I've seen nothing else like it resulting from this event.
It is that well written that I'd urge you to try and get it published in one of the broadsheet papers, in the EU if it's not possible in the US.

In terms of letting go of the shock of such an experience, there is one practice I learned years ago that is worth passing on, should you find the memories oppressive. Sounds a little strange, but it can be strangely effective.

It is this. Go with your partner to a spring or a clean stream in good countryside. Strip off shirt, shoes and socks and roll up trouserlegs.
Sit quiet for a bit and attune to the life around you. Steady your breathing.
Bathe your hands well in the water, then your arms up to and above your elbows.

Next bathe your face and neck, just as carefully.
Next your feet and legs up to above your ankles.
Finally, with your right hand, splash a little water three times over your left shoulder, and three times over your right.

Last, sit quiet for a bit and reflect on the beauty around you.
While you do these things, ask inside that those who suffered may be eased of their pain, and that those culpable may one day learn some humanity.
I hope this traditional practice of "ablutions" may help in the letting go of lingering sorrows.
___
OTOH, if you think WTF is this BS? - well it was just a thought.
wishing you all the best,
Backstop
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Chicagoan
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Understanding FEMA priorities in a peak oil breakdown Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

PonyBoy78 wrote:
I've always half-jokingly remarked about how the big Blue counties of the country (NYC, Chicago, San Fran, Philly, etc) had better be careful if the approval rating drops below 40%. A draft. Hmm. It wouldn't be very politically palatable, but then again.. that wouldn't matter if elections were suspended for "security reasons" Shocked

Both parties are controlled by the elite anyway. These manufactured terrorist attacks began under Clinton's watch. They will use them no matter who is in office. Whenever support for imperialism drops, the danger increases. Now FEMA has the ability to take control of every major city in the US. What you see in New Orleans is a blueprint for the rest of us. People are going from house to house dragging people by their hair from their homes. They are threatening women with rape. Did you see Alex Jones yesterday? The president in charge of the NO Parish basically said they are using the police to stop FEMA from sabotage. This was from Meet the Press. They have prison camps ready for us. Paul Craig Roberts has said that America might shortly be in the position of Iraq shortly (as in total martial law, open civil war). And he is a Reagan conservative! Just look at link and all the headlines. For America, the crap has hit the fan. We have no constitution, no bill of rights. The government does not give a crap about us and is openly promoting martial law for all Americans.
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PenultimateManStanding
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this one of those "detainees FEMA camps"? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

'Honeysuckle Rose', Fat's Waller. What a piece of music! Smooth and richly melodic in the most obvious, natural way. So much has been lost through the years. America used to have such wonderful music, now it all seems to be aggressive and manic and mean.
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Specop_007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this one of those "detainees FEMA camps"? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

PenultimateManStanding wrote:
'Honeysuckle Rose', Fat's Waller. What a piece of music! Smooth and richly melodic in the most obvious, natural way. So much has been lost through the years. America used to have such wonderful music, now it all seems to be aggressive and manic and mean.
Nightmares on Wax - Les Nuits. From the Carboot Soul album. Thats my idea of smooth and minimalistic in the most obvious ways. You can find it on Launch.com (Yahoos online music thing). Search for Nightmares on Wax, then scroll down to the middle section (Videos) and you can watch the video.

I could listen to that song 4 times a day. Smile And its deliciously orgasmic on the ears when its coming through a 12" Brahma with 2000 watts of power. Surprised
_________________
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble

كا&#
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PenultimateManStanding
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Is this one of those "detainees FEMA camps"? Add User to Ignore List Reply with quote

Specop_007 wrote:
Nightmares on Wax - Les Nuits. From the Carboot Soul album. Thats my idea of smooth and minimalistic in the most obvious ways. Cool
Sure, spec, that's fine. Orgasmic and dreamy. Really good for a trance. But as Gertrude Stein said of Oakland, CA, 'there's no there, there'.
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