Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 7:48 pm Post subject: Things I would like to see happen after Peak....
This is an 'if only' type of post (as in 'if only everything turned out the way I wanted it").
We are talking (very wisely) about all the hardships we must face and plan for after Peak. But how about some GOOD things that could come from the great changes? Things that we could even look forward to?
Here are some of my daydreams:
People live in houses made of the very earth on which they stand. The houses are like sculptures. They are built to suit the surrounding area and climate, to minimize energy needs.
Fleets of sail-barges with rainbow sails ply their trade up and down the world's major rivers. (Sail-barges were apparently quite common on the Thames in past times)
People sleep during the heat of the day and work in the cooler hours.
The nation-state goes out with a whimper, and people form attachments to their bio-region, and to the Earth.
The pared-down Internet survives as a source of news, local voting, and as an information clearing house. It survives because each small community has a solar- or wind-powered building wherein they store computers and a library.
*
My ideas may seem sentimental and impractical to some people, but they are my way of coping with a possibly horrific scenario for which I must plan.
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2004 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Things I would like to see happen after Peak....
Laurasia wrote:
We are talking (very wisely) about all the hardships we must face and plan for after Peak. But how about some GOOD things that could come from the great changes? Things that we could even look forward to?
How about we kill all the rich people and steal their stuff?
Just joking!... I think.
How about we kill all the rich people and steal their stuff?
Just joking!... I think.
Can't you contribute anything useful? Almost all of your posts are just plain stupid, trolling crap. I hope they come out with a filter so me and others here don't have to read your idiotic posts anymore.
The next post brought me back to reality pretty quick
I too wish for a simpler world...
Where there are no fast lanes, no cell phones and no terrorists
Where you can actually can get to know your neighbors
Where life goes by just a little bit slower
Joined: Jul 07, 2004 Posts: 434 Location: Berkeley CA
Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:29 pm Post subject:
I just hope everything we acomplished, all the knowledge we acuired, discovered, or obtained will stay there. It would be really sad to see all of out scientific knowledge, and progess go to waste. All the fields of science biology, geology, physics, chemistry, etc... not only science, but history too, it would be sad to had lost history.
I hope we're still going to have schools, how are we going to educate out kids if we don't have school?
Hope it isn't really "going back to the stone age." _________________ my page:
www.myspace.com/peakoil
Joined: May 17, 2004 Posts: 1969 Location: Democratic People's Republic of Washington
Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:01 am Post subject:
Terran wrote:
I just hope everything we accomplished, all the knowledge we acquired, discovered, or obtained will stay there. It would be really sad to see all of out scientific knowledge, and progress go to waste. All the fields of science biology, geology, physics, chemistry, etc... not only science, but history too, it would be sad to had lost history.
I hope we're still going to have schools, how are we going to educate out kids if we don't have school?
Hope it isn't really "going back to the stone age."
This is what I hope will be preserved also, as a loss of the immense amount of knowledge gained during the industrial revolution would pose a great barrier to rebuilding our society to a sustainable state. Also, preservation of existing knowledge would ease the recovery period, and allow us, (the human race), to recover the benefits to modern society, while eliminating the negative aspects associated with it.
In regards to education, even if the formal federal structure were no longer in place, and local educational facilities have not been established, it would still be possible to provide some education. As long as there is access to written materials, and materials which to write with, education in the modern sense would still be possible. Yes, there may be a shortage of writing implements in the future, but a burnt end of a stick makes an adequate substitute for a pencil. I do not imagine that there will be a shortage of paper, as it is relatively easy to manufacture, and if necessary, can be recovered from landfills. Landfills may also provide a excellent location to recover items to teach children about the industrial era, and remind them exactly how wasteful the, (then extinct), industrial civilization was.
Just because the formal facilities for education may no longer serve their function, does not mean that education will no longer continue. Educated persons existed before government became involved in the education of the children, and educated persons will continue to exist after the government can no longer maintain the present educational system. Also, if a child is not taught in a public educational setting, the child will be less susceptible to following the "official" route of building up false hope in things that will never be, while preparing for an unknown and uncertain future with certainty, and incurring massive debts for credentials that appear good on paper while having no bearing on actual experience, all while consuming as many resources as humanly possible. The government sponsored educational system is excellent at producing the next generation of worker drones, but is far from adequate in inspiring individuals to innovate. Innovation and invention are discouraged by government sponsored education, while producing the next generation of mindless consumers obsessed with television. _________________ Here Lies the United States Of America.
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3429 Location: California, USA
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 3:06 am Post subject:
Aldous Huxley's _Island_: YES!!
Actually they didn't give kids LSD, they took some kind of pill made from mushrooms in their religious rituals, which is an idea Huxley got from some researchers who were investigating the subject before it became a taboo. I don't believe in putting kids through traumatic "initiation rituals" of whatever kind, but that's beside the point. (Nor do I believe in taboos.)
The key to _Island_ was a culture that integrated the best of its religious traditions and the best of modern science. In both religion and science, they emphasized a value system that nowadays would seem "quaint," old-fashioned, and conservative, that was also open-minded, empirical, and thoroughly grounded in common sense.
Part of the back-story is that Will Farnaby (the outsider who has landed on the island of Pala) works for an oil company, and the reason he's in Pala (the name of the island) is to scope out the opportunities for a rather one-sided oil deal. So even in 1962 or so, when Huxley wrote this, oil was a factor in geopolitics to the extent that it made it into fiction.
Re. technology: At one point, Will Farnaby asks one of the citizens (Dr. Andrew MacPhail, if I recall correctly) about their approach to technology. MacPhail answers that their first priority has always been to choose those technologies that make the biggest real improvements in standard of living without harming their way of life. MacPhail specifically mentions that one of the first Western technologies they adopted was refrigeration, and that they established a large central refrigerated warehouse to keep fresh foods stored in order to prevent hunger in the event of a crop failure.
By "common sense," I mean that the Palanese culture was rational in a way that even Western cultures are not. For example, Huxley makes reference to a performance of a play, the Palanese adaptation of the Greek _Oedipus_ tragedy. In the original version of the play, a character discovers that he has fallen in love (romantically) with his mother and then proceeds to gouge his eyes out or attempt suicide. In the Palanese adaptation, the same character discovers that he has fallen in love with his mother, realizes he's got a problem on his hands, and gets into counseling to straighten it out. One might be tempted to say that's downright boring compared to the drama of gouged-out eyes and wailing & moaning, but how much more rational!
What Huxley was pointing to with that item, was that civilized Western cultures often pay lip-service to rationality but in fact prefer "drama" (in both the theatre and real life) even if the "drama" is simply the grownup version of a spoiled kid throwing a tantrum, or some kind of overtly self-destructive behavior. The rational response to a car that won't start isn't to kick it or smash the windshield, but to take it to a mechanic who can fix the problem and get it back on the road. The rational response to a personal crisis isn't to do something self-destructive but to take it to a counselor of some kind who can help you fix the problem and get back on the road.
Children who are found to have aggressive tendencies are given constructive outlets such as contact sports and other vigorous physical activity. Neighborhoods are close-knit to the point where parents help take care of each others' kids, in an arrangement called Mutual Adoption Clubs: so, for example, when Mom & Dad want to have a romantic weekend by themselves, the kids go stay with the neighbors (as easily as staying with an aunt & uncle).
The underpinning to all of this, i.e. the conscious choices about technology, the level-headed approach to solving problems, etc., is that Huxley's culture is one that respects and practices meditation regularly and has a reflective attitude toward life. Pala's religion is largely based on Buddhism, but the elements of meditation and self-reflection are universal, i.e. they also exist in Christianity, Judaism, Islam (do a search under the name Rumi and the name Hafiz), etc. So there is nothing Huxley-specific or Pala-specific, or even Buddhism-specific about those things.
Huxley specifically said that everything he was writing about in _Island_ was based on things that were known to be true at the time it was written, and that no miraculous new scientific or technological breakthroughs were needed to make it possible. To which I would add, all of it is also possible in a Western cultural context as well.
It would make a very interesting project to comb through Island for all of these specifics, and write them up in a way that is adapted to the current state of knowledge in our own culture. And more specifically, adapted to the circumstances many of us think are likely in the decades ahead.
Joined: May 31, 2004 Posts: 920 Location: Brno, Czech rep., EU
Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:00 am Post subject:
World handled transition well, and now, in 2050, it's much better place to live..
It's world of advanced technologies, information-based society that consumes less energy and materials, yet it produces more and allows you to live even happier lives.
People in western world live more in smaller cities, yet thanks to advanced communications, they work anywhere in the world. Transportation is more expensive than it used to be, but there is less need to travel. Agriculture uses less pesticides and fertilizers thanks to advanced GM, and is powered mainly by biodiesel and synthetic fuels, food is more expensive though. Short range transportation is done by various kind of devices, hyrdogen, synthetic fuels and electric based cars are most common, and mass transport networks are well developed. Most cargo is transported using advanced railroads connected to grid..
Homes became much more efficient. High energy prices during transition forced people to build houses that need little energy for heating and AC. Most houses, including office buildings have cheap PV or thermal panels on their roofs. Renewable energy potential is long time seen as modern and efficient way to get energy and is eploited to it's maximum. Wind tourbines are spread across country, tidal and small hydro plants are very common too. Sunny desert countries are exploiting they solar potential and are energy exporters.
Nuclear program was expanded, and energy that is not covered by renewables and now dwindling coal supplies is more than enough covered by nuclear energy. Advanced fusion projects are making serious progress, and some countries already have comercial fusion power-plants.
Global warming is causing serious problems, some areas are hit by frequent disasters, periods of droughts or floods sometimes damage food production, but concentrations of CO2 in atmosphere are not rising anymore, and they are beginning to fall, as there is almost no fossil fuel burning anymore.
World is much peacefull place now, global trade declined as transportation costs rised, and most countries are using mainly domestic resources. There is little international pressure, and strong international cooperation, global communications and problems of past actually make many people feel like citizens of Earth instead of just one nation.
Total world population is slightly over 5 billions, and is slowly declining, as demographic changes slow the rate of reproduction in the former 3rd world..
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3429 Location: California, USA
Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:48 pm Post subject:
Licho: YES! All the way.
Similiar promises were made in the 1950s, but didn't come through. Now we have a second chance to get it right.
One of the key elements from an ethical/moral standpoint, will be to overcome the element of combined greed and laziness that causes certain people to want far more than any reasonable fair share, while working much less than any reasonable fair share to get it.
It might be tempting to write off that point as "you can't overcome human nature," but one could say the same about most forms of common crime including robbery, rape, and child molestation. Civilized societies do not tolerate those things, and nor should they tolerate the spectacle of unbridled lust-for-things and lust-for-power that have led to most of the world's problems today.
So to your potential future I would add the idea these items:
In a culture with sufficient time for human relationships, children are raised by active parents who give them the love and discipline to lead consistent and principled lives, friendships are as permanent as family, and families of all kinds (e.g. including gay couples, expanded families, etc.) thrive in a society that values fidelity and permanence in relationships.
In a world of declining population levels, the cost of land once again becomes affordable to the vast majority without oppressive mortgages and rents. Most people choose the place they live with the intention of staying there for a good part of their lives. Those who choose a more geographically varied life can still do so, though the cost of moving around is cause for greater deliberation than in the past: one makes one's choices with better planning.
As land has become more affordable, and transport costs have made local markets more feasible, freedom of enterprise has also advanced. People are more willing to go into business for themselves, since they already have the security of equity in their land. For many, the transition from school and/or military and/or civilian service, to the full-time work world, includes a period of time when they are working part-time as an employee of another company, and part-time as a sole or co-owner of a new business or one that's being passed between generations.
As economic circumstances have become less frenetic, and people have found more time for family and community, they have also found time for a spiritual/religious life that is more reflective and less reactive. The religious extremes of the late 20th and early 21st century have given way to a practice of worship in each of the major faiths, that is more devotional and more contemplative, and more devoted to service. There is a greater degree of mutual respect among different faiths; strict denominations and liberal ones live and work side-by-side on mutual projects for the common good. People who were put off by the sectarian and denominational battles of the late 20th and early 21st centuries, have found in themselves a basis to affirm faith as a positive good; many have returned to the churches of their birth. And best of all in this regard, the worlds of science and of faith have reached a place of mutual respect where each contributes to the understanding of us and our relationship with the greater whole.
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